Next change after Canon 6D

[ketan]

Hi,

Currently I am using Canon 6D and am reasonably satisfied with it - except for noise and dynamic range. Love Canon's color processing capabilities. Lenses I have are 24-105 F/4 L, 70-200 F/4 L, 16-35 F/4 L and so on.

Now I wish to go for my next change. Of late have been reading a lot about mirrorless bodies and feel that that is going to be the future. Tried to have look and feel of Canon Eos R but was not greatly impressed, felt like using point and shoot camera. Compared to that loved the feel of 5D IV. Also saw Sony A7 RIII with canon lenses.

Anyways, options I am considering are:
(1) Canon EOS R
(2) Canon 5D IV
(3) Sony A7 RIII (with Canon lenses)

Shall appreciate your advise on which camera I should go for as next change...

Thank you,

Ketan

 

[ac12]

For mirrorless Canon, if you can wait, you might wait for the next generation of Canon's EOS-R, and see what changes Canon makes. First generation of anything is the mfg testing the market, and how well did they do matching camera features to market demands.
The native Canon R lens landscape will take 3-5 years to be fleshed in. But you have your L-lenses that you can use via an ES to R adapter.

If you want to stay dSLR the 5D would be an option.

I do not know how well the Canon lens on Sony camera will play together vs. native Sony lens on Sony camera.
A comment from a couple Sony users that I know is, they like the camera, they HATE the menu system.
Sony is on their 3rd or 4th generation, so bugs and issues have gradually be ironed out and new features added. Sony's lens landscape has matured.

Cruious thought, Sony is an electronic company. I do not know if they have an optical division. If not, I wonder who makes their lenses? It would be funny if it were Canon.​

What do you shoot?
In general mirrorless is not yet up to shooting FAST sports. There are exceptions at the high end of the ranges, so mirrorless is slowly closing the gap.

While I shoot a mirrorless, I still use a dSLR for shooting fast sports.​

Mirrorless battery run time generally stinks in comparison to a dSLR. Run time varies by specific camera + lens.
I have no idea what the battery run time is on the Canon R and Sony A7RIII. But for comparison:

My Olympus EM1 with a non stabilized lens gives me 4 hours of continuous run time. With the stabilized 12-100 lens, it drops down to a painful 2-1/2 hours. Carrying spare batteries (plural) is mandatory. The logistics issue is, when I travel, I have to charge 3 or 4 batteries every night. And this without using the power sucking 12-100 lens.
By comparison, my D7200 will let me shoot the entire weekend on a single charge.​

 

[black pepper]

I went from the Canon 6D to the Fuji 50R with an adapter for my Canon L glass. It worked great, but I ended up loving the Fuji lenses more so I use the 2 Fuji lenses more than the canon lenses with the adapter. I kept my 7d mk ii and 100-400 L for wildlife.

The price is a huge deterrent but I couldn't be happier with the change.

 

[Derrel]

Canon 6D-II???

5D IV would be nice.

 

[ronlane]

Not sure what you are shooting but my first thought reading your thread is get faster glass. All of the f/4 glass you have is good for some situations but is not the best lens in the focal ranges.

To me you have answered your own question with the choices you have listed, being the 5D mk IV. My reasoning is because the R and the A7R III are both mirrorless and are about the same size. So if you feel that you are shooting a point and shoot with the R, you will probably feel the same with the Sony.

One of the big reasons for going mirrorless is the size difference and with the R having the same sensor as the 5D mk IV, AND has eye AF, to me that is the way to go. Another bonus is the glass that Canon is coming out with for the R system is getting some really great reviews.

I have been one that was very apprehensive of the mirrorless being better than the dslr but after using a few mirrorless camera with eye AF, including the R briefly, I am pretty sure that my next body will be the R or it's upgrade/next model.

 

[Derrel]

A lot of Canon shooters are switching to the Sony A7 series. In fact one of my photo buddies just got a whole new Sony A7 system this week along with a pair of new Godox 600 mono lights. He was a Canon guy for 20 years..

The new full frame mirrorless system lenses from Nikon are particularly good, and the 50 mm and the 24 to 70 mm zoom are widely acclaimed as being substantially better than F-mount versions. And not by inexperienced users either,but by some of the leading experts in photography with Nikon. It seems that the design constraints that have been eliminated by going to a mirrorless system have resulted in some good optical performance enhancements.

In the people photography field, I have seen some really clean-looking images coming from the Sony cameras. It is hard to describe, but the Sony images look very clean, and are well received by people who like, well, I will use the words "plastic or artificial" look. If you compare Fuji XT images against Sony A7RIII images, the Sony images look cooler in color balance,and less grainy, more hyper-realistic, and The Fuji images look more organic and softer, and a little bit lower in detail. Many people describe the Fuji images as being more film-like than those from other digital camera systems, and I know what they mean. Sony has really taken high-resolution digital imaging to another level of "clean-ness", and smoothness, and I am not particularly fond of this look, but I am also four years shy of being 60 years old. For many younger photographers who want low, low noise along with hyper-realistic detail, the Sony look as I call it, has become a new calling card in Internet era people photography. Personally, I am more comfortable with the look of Canon or Nikon or other brands. Sony images look ,to me, a lot more like the new, Russian, heavily-Photoshopped look. By plastic I mean that the people photographed have skin that makes them look a lot like dolls. If you look on Instagram you will see what I mean: there is an entirely new look in people photography, and most of the practitioners of this look have switched to the Sony a 7R series cameras. This was first seen in the Sony A900 versus the Nikon D3x, which shared the same sensel, (SIC) made by Sony. Nikon added its OWN demosaicing and color profile routines, and got better color and better higher ISO performance, but at roughly a $5,000 higher price point. Color between the brands _is_ different.

It would probably take me 5000 words to describe what I'm talking about, so if I were you, I would spend a day or two searching the web for images from a particular camera that you are interested in, and decide for yourself if the color look suits you.

 

[TreeofLifeStairs]

For mirrorless Canon, if you can wait, you might wait for the next generation of Canon's EOS-R, and see what changes Canon makes. First generation of anything is the mfg testing the market, and how well did they do matching camera features to market demands.
The native Canon R lens landscape will take 3-5 years to be fleshed in. But you have your L-lenses that you can use via an ES to R adapter.

If you want to stay dSLR the 5D would be an option.

I do not know how well the Canon lens on Sony camera will play together vs. native Sony lens on Sony camera.
A comment from a couple Sony users that I know is, they like the camera, they HATE the menu system.
Sony is on their 3rd or 4th generation, so bugs and issues have gradually be ironed out and new features added. Sony's lens landscape has matured.

Cruious thought, Sony is an electronic company. I do not know if they have an optical division. If not, I wonder who makes their lenses? It would be funny if it were Canon.​

What do you shoot?
In general mirrorless is not yet up to shooting FAST sports. There are exceptions at the high end of the ranges, so mirrorless is slowly closing the gap.

While I shoot a mirrorless, I still use a dSLR for shooting fast sports.​

Mirrorless battery run time generally stinks in comparison to a dSLR. Run time varies by specific camera + lens.
I have no idea what the battery run time is on the Canon R and Sony A7RIII. But for comparison:

My Olympus EM1 with a non stabilized lens gives me 4 hours of continuous run time. With the stabilized 12-100 lens, it drops down to a painful 2-1/2 hours. Carrying spare batteries (plural) is mandatory. The logistics issue is, when I travel, I have to charge 3 or 4 batteries every night. And this without using the power sucking 12-100 lens.
By comparison, my D7200 will let me shoot the entire weekend on a single charge.​

I know that ziess and Sony had a partnership going for a while but I think their G master lenses came in direct competition and ended that. It was my understanding that Sony was at least designing the GM lenses. I guess the manufacturing could be done elsewhere.

 

[TreeofLifeStairs]

A quick google search yielded this.

Engineer Interviews | G Master Lenses | Sony US

In developing the G Master, we adopted an XA (extreme aspherical) lens element with a surface accuracy of 0.01 microns. To begin with, aspherical lenses are very difficult to manufacture, and it was a challenge for us to see how far we could raise the surface accuracy.

In fact, at the time we were developing this technology, we collaborated with the engineers at a production site belonging to Sony Global Manufacturing & Operations Corporation in Aichi Prefecture, Japan, where they have aspherical lens production technology, and after reviewing every single manufacturing process from scratch, we introduced a new process.

I'm confident that the XA lenses we were finally able to produce are of the highest quality in the world. I think the reason we were able to perfect them to such a high degree was because we were able to use Sony's unique proprietary technology and develop it in close collaboration with the production facility.

 

[ac12]

@TreeofLifeStairs , from the link Sony is designing their own lenses, and at least makes the XA element. It is not really clear if they make the lenses, but it implies it.

 

[jaomul]

I'd say 5d4. 30mp is really enough for everyone but the very few. It has good noise handling and jumps the dynamic range on the 6d by 2 stops. A fine camera indeed (having said that I believe the 6d to be far better than its numbers suggest)

 

[ronlane]

I'd say 5d4. 30mp is really enough for everyone but the very few. It has good noise handling and jumps the dynamic range on the 6d by 2 stops. A fine camera indeed (having said that I believe the 6d to be far better than its numbers suggest)

Same sensor that is in the EOS R.

 

[jaomul]

I'd say 5d4. 30mp is really enough for everyone but the very few. It has good noise handling and jumps the dynamic range on the 6d by 2 stops. A fine camera indeed (having said that I believe the 6d to be far better than its numbers suggest)

Same sensor that is in the EOS R.

Does the R not require an adapter to use current lenses which is more money. Canon would be last on my list if I was going full frame mirrorless. I'd still think 5d4 is the natural upgrade from a 6d, going mirrorless is almost like a system change, YMMV

 

[ac12]

I'd say 5d4. 30mp is really enough for everyone but the very few. It has good noise handling and jumps the dynamic range on the 6d by 2 stops. A fine camera indeed (having said that I believe the 6d to be far better than its numbers suggest)

Same sensor that is in the EOS R.

Does the R not require an adapter to use current lenses which is more money. Canon would be last on my list if I was going full frame mirrorless. I'd still think 5d4 is the natural upgrade from a 6d, going mirrorless is almost like a system change, YMMV

Yes, the R needs an EF to R adapter to use the EF lenses. That is no different than Nikon with the F to Z adapter.
However, I remember seeing the adapter heavily discounted when bought with a R. This was the same for the Canon M50 and Nikon Z, where the adapter was heavily discounted, to make the transition from dSLR to mirrorless easier.

Switching to mirrorless IS a system change. But the pain depends on what you are coming from and what you are going to.
If you can still use your current lenses, that is a major plus. If you cannot, that is PAINFUL.

• Going from Canon EF to R, you can use the EF lenses on the R.
  
• Going from Canon EF to Nikon Z, you cannot use the EF lens on the Z.
  
• Going from Nikon AF/AF-D to Nikon Z, you cannot autofocus. The FTZ adapter does not support the mechanical AF lenses.
  
• Going from Nikon F to m4/3, you cannot really use a F lens on m4/3.

If you do not want to migrate to mirrorless, then don't.
If you do, then the EF to R option is there to help the transition.

 

[Derrel]

My Knowledge is as follows:

Zeiss... formerly by Yashica...errrr...I mean Kyocera.

Yashica/Contax" was Japanese...(in the 1980s-)...built by Kyocera in the late 1980's

Zeiss--currently assembled by Cosina, in Japan.

"Voigtlander" lenses,,built by Cosina, Japan.

Zeiss is a QC firm...they make sure the "Zeiss" lenses are assembled and made to high standards.

"NIKON FM 10"--has been built by Cosina, in Japan, for decades.

it has long been rumored that a few of Nikon's lens models have been built by Tamron and by Cosina.

"Vivitar" lenses---built in the 1970's and 1980's by MANY of Japan's (and by at least one USA company, Perkin-Elmer) top independent lens assembly companies. "vivitar" was a trade name, and still exists.

I am thinking the SONY lenses are not assembled by Sony workers.... Zeiss does not make its own excellent photo lenses, but pays another company to do so. The label is what the lens is sold as, not necessarily who "makes it".

 

[ronlane]

I'd say 5d4. 30mp is really enough for everyone but the very few. It has good noise handling and jumps the dynamic range on the 6d by 2 stops. A fine camera indeed (having said that I believe the 6d to be far better than its numbers suggest)

Same sensor that is in the EOS R.

Does the R not require an adapter to use current lenses which is more money. Canon would be last on my list if I was going full frame mirrorless. I'd still think 5d4 is the natural upgrade from a 6d, going mirrorless is almost like a system change, YMMV

Yes the R requires an adapter for EF glass but most of the deals right now have that included in the price, so there is no extra charges. I would agree that the 5d4 is the upgrade from the 6d.