Nikon FA metering issues

[Harrybade]

I just picked up a second hand FA which looked to be in good condition however have run a test roll through and most of the shots have come out as slightly / heavily underexposed (but varying in degree of under exposure). I’ve heard mixed reviews of the metering tech but wouldn’t expect it to be this bad - is this a hardware issue?

I shot on aperture priority with 0 compensation using a couple of AI / AI-s lenses which I understand are compatible

I’m used to using an FM which is super reliable so pretty disappointed with these results

 

[RAZKY]

I just picked up a second hand FA which looked to be in good condition however have run a test roll through and most of the shots have come out as slightly / heavily underexposed (but varying in degree of under exposure). I’ve heard mixed reviews of the metering tech but wouldn’t expect it to be this bad - is this a hardware issue?

I shot on aperture priority with 0 compensation using a couple of AI / AI-s lenses which I understand are compatible

I’m used to using an FM which is super reliable so pretty disappointed with these results

There are several possible causes, how about we take one or two at a time? 1 - Compare the meter reading with a meter of known accuracy. Use the same lens and exact same subject and lighting for both readings. 2 - Visually compare the shutter speeds with those of a camera you know to be accurate (shoot manually here). Let us know the results - we'll figure it out!

 

[Harrybade]

Thanks for the reply, I should have thought of that! I ran some tests against my FM and the FA seems to be off by 1/3 to 2/3 stop. I don’t think that’s explaining the full issue though. It’s just clicked that I used ultramax 400 (at box speed) which isn’t a film I’ve used before so perhaps it needs more light than I’m used to

 

[RAZKY]

Thanks for the reply, I should have thought of that! I ran some tests against my FM and the FA seems to be off by 1/3 to 2/3 stop. I don’t think that’s explaining the full issue though. It’s just clicked that I used ultramax 400 (at box speed) which isn’t a film I’ve used before so perhaps it needs more light than I’m used to

That's good news! Just compensate with the ISO setting, readings should be consistent. Happy shooting!

 

[cgw]

Nikon FA - Part V - Metering Systems

 

[JBPhotog]

If your goal is to determine the accuracy of the metering system you will need to do some tests which does require a few bits of gear.
Get yourself a large 18% grey card not a Colour Checker Passport, a roll of 36 exposure transparency film, tripod and a support for the grey card. Do this test with the full sun illuminating the grey card and no shadow on it from the camera between the hours of 11 AM - 1 PM, this ensures the sun is at its zenith and not pushing through more atmosphere. Set the camera on manual as per the sunny 16 rule, and fill the frame(unfocused) with a 50mm lens(preferably a prime) with the grey card. Make a list of your exposures, with #1 as your sunny 16 control then proceed to a control set of +/- in 1/3 increments using your shutter speed only. Capture in 1/3 increments for -2 to +2, this should be @ 13 exposures then finish off with a black frame. If your lab can process the film and leave it in a full strip and not mounted that is best.

Now do the same on Aperture priority and let the meter find the middle exposure with exposure compensation set to '0'. Proceed to -2 in 1/3 increments by adjusting the exposure compensation dial then proceed to +2 doing the same.

These two tests will determine whether the meter is actually accurate, your manually set sunny 16 should be perfect and the other -1/3 to +1/3 should reveal even exposure jumps of 1/3 EV. The Aperture Priority group should show you if the meter is accurate and the exposure compensation series in A should help you determine if you need to make any adjustments to get 18% grey by comparing the first set of -1/3 to +1/3 to the 'A' set.

The caveat in all of this is whether your shutter speeds are accurate, if they are there should be equal EV changes between each shot.

 

[cgw]

If your goal is to determine the accuracy of the metering system you will need to do some tests which does require a few bits of gear.
Get yourself a large 18% grey card not a Colour Checker Passport, a roll of 36 exposure transparency film, tripod and a support for the grey card. Do this test with the full sun illuminating the grey card and no shadow on it from the camera between the hours of 11 AM - 1 PM, this ensures the sun is at its zenith and not pushing through more atmosphere. Set the camera on manual as per the sunny 16 rule, and fill the frame(unfocused) with a 50mm lens(preferably a prime) with the grey card. Make a list of your exposures, with #1 as your sunny 16 control then proceed to a control set of +/- in 1/3 increments using your shutter speed only. Capture in 1/3 increments for -2 to +2, this should be @ 13 exposures then finish off with a black frame. If your lab can process the film and leave it in a full strip and not mounted that is best.

Now do the same on Aperture priority and let the meter find the middle exposure with exposure compensation set to '0'. Proceed to -2 in 1/3 increments by adjusting the exposure compensation dial then proceed to +2 doing the same.

These two tests will determine whether the meter is actually accurate, your manually set sunny 16 should be perfect and the other -1/3 to +1/3 should reveal even exposure jumps of 1/3 EV. The Aperture Priority group should show you if the meter is accurate and the exposure compensation series in A should help you determine if you need to make any adjustments to get 18% grey by comparing the first set of -1/3 to +1/3 to the 'A' set.

The caveat in all of this is whether your shutter speeds are accurate, if they are there should be equal EV changes between each shot.

Slide film? Far cheaper, easier and immediate is following RAZKY's advice. If the FA's variance is linear, then adjust exp. comp.

 

[Harrybade]

I've gone through my logs from the test roll this morning and it still doesn't seem to be adding up...

-the streetlight was shot at EV~15
-the laneway was shot at EV~10
-the market was shot at EV~11.5

All those shots were taken 2-4hrs before sunset on a bright day with a few clouds as you can see in the streetlight photo. I'm not that experienced with using EV values but those sound to me like they should be not too far off? Or at least not as underexposed as they are? Would that suggest that the shutter speeds are not accurate?

I don't have any of the gear you suggested JBPhotog, but was thinking about borrowing a DSLR and shooting matching exposures to compare. Open to any tests that could be suggested

 

[JBPhotog]

Slide film? Far cheaper, easier and immediate is following RAZKY's advice. If the FA's variance is linear, then adjust exp. comp.

Slide film because of it's inherent sensitive EV range. Unless you KNOW the variance by testing the meter with an output source such as a test film strip, you have no clue as to which direction and how much the meter is off. Additionally, testing against another camera bodies meter says nothing about shutter speed variance in the FA body. Do the work and you'll know soon enough where the issues are.

 

[JBPhotog]

I've gone through my logs from the test roll this morning and it still doesn't seem to be adding up...

-the streetlight was shot at EV~15
-the laneway was shot at EV~10
-the market was shot at EV~11.5

All those shots were taken 2-4hrs before sunset on a bright day with a few clouds as you can see in the streetlight photo. I'm not that experienced with using EV values but those sound to me like they should be not too far off? Or at least not as underexposed as they are? Would that suggest that the shutter speeds are not accurate?

I don't have any of the gear you suggested JBPhotog, but was thinking about borrowing a DSLR and shooting matching exposures to compare. Open to any tests that could be suggested

A grey card is not that expensive($8) unless you want the best and do lots of testing of in camera, handheld meters and creating camera profiles. They are also helpful understanding your reflective meter and can be used daily when shooting other subjects.

Besides if you want to compare your FA to a DSLR you'll need a known target such as a grey card.

 

[RAZKY]

I've gone through my logs from the test roll this morning and it still doesn't seem to be adding up...

-the streetlight was shot at EV~15
-the laneway was shot at EV~10
-the market was shot at EV~11.5

All those shots were taken 2-4hrs before sunset on a bright day with a few clouds as you can see in the streetlight photo. I'm not that experienced with using EV values but those sound to me like they should be not too far off? Or at least not as underexposed as they are? Would that suggest that the shutter speeds are not accurate?

You didn't visually compare the FAs' shutter with the FM?
Edit: While this comparison is hardly scientific, it ought to at least indicate if there is a difference of 1/2 stop or more.

 

[Harrybade]

I didn’t have my FM with me when shooting the test roll, I compared them later but not with film. Setting both to the same on manual the FM was reading as up to 1 stop lower on the exposure meter (less variance on lower contrast subjects)

Based on my logs, I’m confused that regardless of what the meter is saying that the EV doesn’t seem to line up with what I’m seeing. The streetlight shot for example in was at f16, 1/500 and ISO400 = EV15. Is that not a fairly appropriate exposure for a shot of bright sky? But the shot is well underexposed

 

[cgw]

How's your lab? I'd try a slower(ISO100-200) film outdoors. Just possible the FA's metering system is defective. It happens all too often now with old "working" SLRs with surprise "issues" from sellers who don't know or care.

 

[RAZKY]

I didn’t have my FM with me when shooting the test roll, I compared them later but not with film. Setting both to the same on manual the FM was reading as up to 1 stop lower on the exposure meter (less variance on lower contrast subjects)

Based on my logs, I’m confused that regardless of what the meter is saying that the EV doesn’t seem to line up with what I’m seeing. The streetlight shot for example in was at f16, 1/500 and ISO400 = EV15. Is that not a fairly appropriate exposure for a shot of bright sky? But the shot is well underexposed

Forget that "test" roll and start over - a camera of unknown performance with a film of unknown characteristics = 0. You now know the difference between the two camera's meter readings - when you compared the FA shutter speeds side by side against those of the FM, what was the result? (If you're not sure how to run that test, please say so.)

 

[Harrybade]

Forget that "test" roll and start over - a camera of unknown performance with a film of unknown characteristics = 0. You now know the difference between the two camera's meter readings - when you compared the FA shutter speeds side by side against those of the FM, what was the result? (If you're not sure how to run that test, please say so.)

I’m not sure how to run that test. Thanks for the advice so far