Nikon is slacking

[Nikon_Josh]

How is Nikon slacking?

Just checked Adorama for the sake of this post...The D3s is backordered. The D3x is backordered. The D700 is backordered. All of that means customers are still buying Nikon's older cameras faster than Nikon can make them...and yet, you want them to introduce something new? I understand your reasoning from a consumer standpoint, but as a manufacturer, why on earth would they come out with something new when their old stuff is selling faster than they can make it at prices close to what they introduced it at?

At this point, Nikon has zero reason to release a new professional level camera...

We have these threads every few weeks. The answer is still the same. As long as people continue to buy what they have already released faster than they can make them, Nikon will not introduce a new camera.

Nikon has been 'about to release' a new D800 for around two years now based on Rumors in the interwebs...Guess what, the D700 still sells faster than they can produce them.

At this point, it's a pipe dream to assume a D800 availability any time within the next 6 months.

Not knocking what your saying Kerb, but isn't this because of the problems with production though in Japan? I mean.. are Nikon struggling to produce a decent amount of cameras to meet demands?

 

[BlairWright]

How is Nikon slacking?

Just checked Adorama for the sake of this post...The D3s is backordered. The D3x is backordered. The D700 is backordered. All of that means customers are still buying Nikon's older cameras faster than Nikon can make them...and yet, you want them to introduce something new? I understand your reasoning from a consumer standpoint, but as a manufacturer, why on earth would they come out with something new when their old stuff is selling faster than they can make it at prices close to what they introduced it at?

At this point, Nikon has zero reason to release a new professional level camera...

I heard what it means is that their pro camera factory was decimated... Had it not been washed out I would guess we would be able to buy cameras, it really doesn't have much to do with demand; it's output and their financials point to that too (Check Thom Hogan's site for some reading on this)

I'm a huge Nikon fan, have been forever.. They are only slacking on announcements, unlike Canon they tend to ensure their manufacturing and supply chains are in place before making a huge announcement. Same thing happened with the D3 and D700...

 

[KmH]

From what I understand Canon doesn't plan to actually release the new 1Dx until March of 2012, if it even happens then.

Canon has proven repeatedly over the years to be more about hype, than substance.

 

[Markw]

With all these Canon releases, some Sigma releases, and other manufacturers, when is Nikon going to introduce something new? I mean where is the D700 replacement, and the D3 replacement?

They're floating about in a sea of saltwater, dispair, and mirrorless compacts. I wouldn't expect any releases anytime soon, but I don't see why they wouldn't announce anything. Unless they're taking in the 1Dx, and making minor tweaks to the D4. Maybe some firmware updates, etc.

I mean, i'm not doubting Nikon in any way, it's just like ....come one, lets get going! I mean, the Canon 1Dx is a response to Nikon's D3s, so i can't wait to see what Nikon's rebuttal will be. Not so much in lenses, but definitely in the professional bodies.

Look at it this way..Canon did ANNOUNCE the 1Dx as a rebuttal to Nikon's D3s, two years later. And we are already wanting a rebuttal to their 2-year-old-late camera. There's really no reason to see one yet if you look at it that way. But, I do believe you'll see one before the Olympics next year.

Well they are saying the new revolution is going to be 36 MEGAPIXELS? haha.

I wouldn't doubt if the D800 has 36MP. They'll have to have a market that can compete with the 5DIII, which will likely be close to that as well.

For me, i'd rather have better ISO capability and FPS, as opposed to ridiculous amounts of pixels. I feel like such high pixels should be reserved for hasselbads, which are specifically for high MP, where as nikon and canon are more for high fps and iso capabilities. But maybe that's just me.

If Canon can do what they're claiming the 1Dx will be able to do with their ISO, I think Nikon will be able to produce a camera with 36MP, and at least maintain the noise levels of the D700. Of course, everyone wants an improvement, but everyone also knows it's not necessary, and it will be seen in the D4. Or, perhaps, maybe there will be two versions of the D800: D800H and D800X. The D800H having lower noise, lower MP, higher FPS..and the D800X will have the 36MP, higher noise, and lower FPS. This would cater to both of the middle-class crowd.

Yes I was being slightly sarcastic, I don't know what they are thinking to be honest with claims of 36MP. I really will be amazed if the D700 replacement has such a crazy amount of MP! I also hear the D400 will be using that god awful Noisy 24MP sensor the A77 is using??

Reference above for D800, but I really hope they don't do that for the D400. The D400 needs to be 16-18MP, and have much better noise levels and dynamic range. Oh, and better video, definitely.

I think Nikon is still pumping water out of the Thailand assembly plant....you know, the one that was flooded with six feet of water in October...and the Sendai, Japan plant, where the professional Nikon gear WAS made...uh...the Japanese pronounce it tsu-na-me, with more or less equal emphasis on all three syllables, according to a Japanese student I went to university with some years back..but I am sure our kvetching will get them to hurry up and get something out right away...like a harried chef, I suppose they'll throw some quick-fried prawns our way while we wait for our entrees...

I am not sure what Canon has actually "released"...they are really good at ANNOUNCING NEW PRODUCTS, in a vapor-ware type of maneuver...but those new superteles??? Still vapor, almost a year later...the new cinema lenses...not for sale...the 1DX...not actually being made yet...several other "development" announcements, but NO PRODUCTS...yet...and only months and months later, or six months in the future...gotta' get those photocopiers and inkjet printers made!!!

Well said. I think they're taking in the 1Dx and making some tweaks before announcing the D4. But, I do think it'll be announced before christmas with release somewhere around April-May.

How is Nikon slacking?

Just checked Adorama for the sake of this post...The D3s is backordered. The D3x is backordered. The D700 is backordered. All of that means customers are still buying Nikon's older cameras faster than Nikon can make them...and yet, you want them to introduce something new? I understand your reasoning from a consumer standpoint, but as a manufacturer, why on earth would they come out with something new when their old stuff is selling faster than they can make it at prices close to what they introduced it at?

At this point, Nikon has zero reason to release a new professional level camera...

We have these threads every few weeks. The answer is still the same. As long as people continue to buy what they have already released faster than they can make them, Nikon will not introduce a new camera.

Nikon has been 'about to release' a new D800 for around two years now based on Rumors in the interwebs...Guess what, the D700 still sells faster than they can produce them.

At this point, it's a pipe dream to assume a D800 availability any time within the next 6 months.

I just don't really agree with that. There is a huge demand for the D800. If they want to make some money, they will definitely make more money releasing that instead of relying on D700 sales. They need to keep up. Canon hasn't announced their 5DIII yet, but, when they do, don't expect Nikon to wait too long to announce their D800. If it's not out beforehand.

Not knocking what your saying Kerb, but isn't this because of the problems with production though in Japan? I mean.. are Nikon struggling to produce a decent amount of cameras to meet demands?

This could definitely play a part as well. As far as I know, D3 series and D700 were produced in their now-flooded plant. So, even if the market were only a couple thousand per nation, if they're not knocking them out fast enough to supply the entire globe, of course they're going to be sold out everyplace you look. It's impossible to keep something globally in stock with one manufacturing plant, and it being out of order.

Nikon is coming. And, I have a feeling, when they do, it will be big. Canon's 1Dx looks great. Nikon will definitely pump something out at least one step up, typical to suit. The 1Dx is supposed to arrive in Q1 of 2012. Chances are, The D4 will as well, or VERY shortly after. As soon as Canon announces their 5DIII, Nikon will have a D800 announcement shortly following (if it doesn't come first). As far as lenses go, there's supposed to be a DX superzoom, and an FX telephoto prime soon. Now that they have two plants down, I don't know how that is coming along either..

But, any way it goes, it's going to be good. Hopefully they don't have to price themselves out of the market.
Mark

 

[Kerbouchard]

How is Nikon slacking?

Just checked Adorama for the sake of this post...The D3s is backordered. The D3x is backordered. The D700 is backordered. All of that means customers are still buying Nikon's older cameras faster than Nikon can make them...and yet, you want them to introduce something new? I understand your reasoning from a consumer standpoint, but as a manufacturer, why on earth would they come out with something new when their old stuff is selling faster than they can make it at prices close to what they introduced it at?

At this point, Nikon has zero reason to release a new professional level camera...

We have these threads every few weeks. The answer is still the same. As long as people continue to buy what they have already released faster than they can make them, Nikon will not introduce a new camera.

Nikon has been 'about to release' a new D800 for around two years now based on Rumors in the interwebs...Guess what, the D700 still sells faster than they can produce them.

At this point, it's a pipe dream to assume a D800 availability any time within the next 6 months.

Not knocking what your saying Kerb, but isn't this because of the problems with production though in Japan? I mean.. are Nikon struggling to produce a decent amount of cameras to meet demands?

What difference does it make what the 'cause' happens to be? The prices are close to what they were when the camera was released...The D700 had gotten down to around $2300 before the earthquake. It's now at $2700 and back ordered.

The cause of the back order is not important from a marketing standpoint. Nikon wants to turn a profit, so they are obviously producing as many cameras as they can. They can't keep up with demand. Until they can keep up with demand, it makes sense for them to continue selling their older designs. Every extra unit they sell at close to release price has extra profit built into it. When they were released, they had to front load the cost of the R&D...that has long since been paid off. At this point, it's pure profit.

From a simple supply and demand perspective, if they are producing as much as they can on assembly lines and processes that have already been tested, and still can't meet the demand, it would make no sense for them to change their entire manufacturing line up just to produce a new camera that they know the market will wait for.

Put simply, most of us have too much invested in Nikon gear to switch. We won't switch camps...We may groan a bit about the waiting process, some of us will upgrade for what is available now, and many of us will upgrade when Nikon brings out the new line.

From a Nikon perspective, there is very little downfall in waiting and a lot of upside.

Just my .02 as to how I would run it if I were in charge. No telling how they decide to play it out, but I seriously doubt you will see a D800 or D4 available before June of 2012.

 

[2WheelPhoto]

I'm about to pull the trigger on a D700 purchase

 

[Kerbouchard]

I'm about to pull the trigger on a D700 purchase

That's what I did months ago...couldn't be happier. Even if they release a new model tomorrow, I am still thrilled with my D700. Honestly, I'm sorry I waited as long as I did. The D700 is an amazing camera.

 

[2WheelPhoto]

I'm about to pull the trigger on a D700 purchase

That's what I did months ago...couldn't be happier. Even if they release a new model tomorrow, I am still thrilled with my D700. Honestly, I'm sorry I waited as long as I did. The D700 is an amazing camera.

You've been saying that and I have to admit you called it right. I've wasted time I couldn't been shooting FF instead of selfishly "holding out" for a newer model or few hundreds bucks off a D700

 

[brian_f2.8]

I agree and while I think about switching and supporting a company like Canon, I just can't do it. Nikon needs to release something soon. I am shooting sports with a D5100. The focusing is so slow even on a 70-200 f2.8 VRII. I am awaiting for the D4/D800. If I do not buy these then the D3s will come down in price. I really need something full frame and 7+ fps.

 

[Kerbouchard]

I'm about to pull the trigger on a D700 purchase

That's what I did months ago...couldn't be happier. Even if they release a new model tomorrow, I am still thrilled with my D700. Honestly, I'm sorry I waited as long as I did. The D700 is an amazing camera.

You've been saying that and I have to admit you called it right. I've wasted time I couldn't been shooting FF instead of selfishly "holding out" for a newer model or few hundreds bucks off a D700

I've been saying it for over a year now...so, eventually, Nikon will prove me wrong. It's just a matter of how long you feel like waiting. Based on everything I have read, I still see it being at least 6 months until the D700 is back to around $2300 new, and I just don't see them coming out with a D800 for under $3100, at least for the first 6 months of it's production, which I think will be announced around May of 2012.

Again, those were just my guesses and reasons to jump at a 'used' D700 for $2300. Made me feel like a fool for not taking a new one for the same price a month before.

 

[Nikon_Josh]

How is Nikon slacking?

Just checked Adorama for the sake of this post...The D3s is backordered. The D3x is backordered. The D700 is backordered. All of that means customers are still buying Nikon's older cameras faster than Nikon can make them...and yet, you want them to introduce something new? I understand your reasoning from a consumer standpoint, but as a manufacturer, why on earth would they come out with something new when their old stuff is selling faster than they can make it at prices close to what they introduced it at?

At this point, Nikon has zero reason to release a new professional level camera...

We have these threads every few weeks. The answer is still the same. As long as people continue to buy what they have already released faster than they can make them, Nikon will not introduce a new camera.

Nikon has been 'about to release' a new D800 for around two years now based on Rumors in the interwebs...Guess what, the D700 still sells faster than they can produce them.

At this point, it's a pipe dream to assume a D800 availability any time within the next 6 months.

Not knocking what your saying Kerb, but isn't this because of the problems with production though in Japan? I mean.. are Nikon struggling to produce a decent amount of cameras to meet demands?

What difference does it make what the 'cause' happens to be? The prices are close to what they were when the camera was released...The D700 had gotten down to around $2300 before the earthquake. It's now at $2700 and back ordered.

The cause of the back order is not important from a marketing standpoint. Nikon wants to turn a profit, so they are obviously producing as many cameras as they can. They can't keep up with demand. Until they can keep up with demand, it makes sense for them to continue selling their older designs. Every extra unit they sell at close to release price has extra profit built into it. When they were released, they had to front load the cost of the R&D...that has long since been paid off. At this point, it's pure profit.

From a simple supply and demand perspective, if they are producing as much as they can on assembly lines and processes that have already been tested, and still can't meet the demand, it would make no sense for them to change their entire manufacturing line up just to produce a new camera that they know the market will wait for.

Put simply, most of us have too much invested in Nikon gear to switch. We won't switch camps...We may groan a bit about the waiting process, some of us will upgrade for what is available now, and many of us will upgrade when Nikon brings out the new line.

From a Nikon perspective, there is very little downfall in waiting and a lot of upside.

Just my .02 as to how I would run it if I were in charge. No telling how they decide to play it out, but I seriously doubt you will see a D800 or D4 available before June of 2012.

You raise some good informative points here!

My only point was, that you didn't mention in your previous post that the backorder was caused by the earthquake. If the earthquake hadn't happened, there would not be a back order IMO. You have rectified this now! :thumbup:

 

[Village Idiot]

I think Nikon is still pumping water out of the Thailand assembly plant....you know, the one that was flooded with six feet of water in October...and the Sendai, Japan plant, where the professional Nikon gear WAS made...uh...the Japanese pronounce it tsu-na-me, with more or less equal emphasis on all three syllables, according to a Japanese student I went to university with some years back..but I am sure our kvetching will get them to hurry up and get something out right away...like a harried chef, I suppose they'll throw some quick-fried prawns our way while we wait for our entrees...

I am not sure what Canon has actually "released"...they are really good at ANNOUNCING NEW PRODUCTS, in a vapor-ware type of maneuver...but those new superteles??? Still vapor, almost a year later...the new cinema lenses...not for sale...the 1DX...not actually being made yet...several other "development" announcements, but NO PRODUCTS...yet...and only months and months later, or six months in the future...gotta' get those photocopiers and inkjet printers made!!!

Vincent Laforet did a video with the new Canon video cameras. Big Mike had a 1DX in hand at some photography show.

That's pretty solid vapor if you ask me.

 

[Village Idiot]

How is Nikon slacking?

Just checked Adorama for the sake of this post...The D3s is backordered. The D3x is backordered. The D700 is backordered. All of that means customers are still buying Nikon's older cameras faster than Nikon can make them...and yet, you want them to introduce something new? I understand your reasoning from a consumer standpoint, but as a manufacturer, why on earth would they come out with something new when their old stuff is selling faster than they can make it at prices close to what they introduced it at?

At this point, Nikon has zero reason to release a new professional level camera...

We have these threads every few weeks. The answer is still the same. As long as people continue to buy what they have already released faster than they can make them, Nikon will not introduce a new camera.

Nikon has been 'about to release' a new D800 for around two years now based on Rumors in the interwebs...Guess what, the D700 still sells faster than they can produce them.

At this point, it's a pipe dream to assume a D800 availability any time within the next 6 months.

Not knocking what your saying Kerb, but isn't this because of the problems with production though in Japan? I mean.. are Nikon struggling to produce a decent amount of cameras to meet demands?

What difference does it make what the 'cause' happens to be? The prices are close to what they were when the camera was released...The D700 had gotten down to around $2300 before the earthquake. It's now at $2700 and back ordered.

The cause of the back order is not important from a marketing standpoint. Nikon wants to turn a profit, so they are obviously producing as many cameras as they can. They can't keep up with demand. Until they can keep up with demand, it makes sense for them to continue selling their older designs. Every extra unit they sell at close to release price has extra profit built into it. When they were released, they had to front load the cost of the R&D...that has long since been paid off. At this point, it's pure profit.

I don't see how you can say this. If the cause of the back order is because their production facilities have taken that big of a hit, then they're not going to be turning any profit. If you can't make a product, then you can't sell a product. See where that's goin?

From a simple supply and demand perspective, if they are producing as much as they can on assembly lines and processes that have already been tested, and still can't meet the demand, it would make no sense for them to change their entire manufacturing line up just to produce a new camera that they know the market will wait for.

Put simply, most of us have too much invested in Nikon gear to switch. We won't switch camps...We may groan a bit about the waiting process, some of us will upgrade for what is available now, and many of us will upgrade when Nikon brings out the new line.

From a Nikon perspective, there is very little downfall in waiting and a lot of upside.

Just my .02 as to how I would run it if I were in charge. No telling how they decide to play it out, but I seriously doubt you will see a D800 or D4 available before June of 2012.

And this is another terrible way to look at it. If another brand that puts out a camera that offers superior features the photograph feels they need or actually needs, then they'll be tempted to buy that instead of looking at older technology. Some will even switch brands. This is easier for those going from a crop sensor camera to a full frame camera that may already be fairly invested in DX lenses and not FX lenses and who will want to upgrade anyways.

A company not designing and producing a new camera just because their lines are still tooled to make an older design is not a good way to run a business in a highly competitive market.

 

[ghache]

I agree and while I think about switching and supporting a company like Canon, I just can't do it. Nikon needs to release something soon. I am shooting sports with a D5100. The focusing is so slow even on a 70-200 f2.8 VRII. I am awaiting for the D4/D800. If I do not buy these then the D3s will come down in price. I really need something full frame and 7+ fps.

LOL, focusing is not going to be any faster with another body since your d5100 doesnt have a focus motor and the focusing speeds comes from the lens your using LOL

 

[Derrel]

From what I understand Canon doesn't plan to actually release the new 1Dx until March of 2012, if it even happens then.

Canon has proven repeatedly over the years to be more about hype, than substance.

Vaporware, from Wikipedia: "...also generally applies to a product that is announced months or years before its release, and for which public development details are lacking. The word has been applied to a growing range of products including consumer, automobiles, and some stock trading practices. At times, vendors are criticized for intentionally producing vaporware in order to keep customers from switching to competitive products that offer more features.[SUP][1][/SUP]Publications widely accuse developers of announcing products early intentionally to gain advantage over others. Network World magazine called vaporware an "epidemic" in 1989, and blamed the press for not investigating whether developers' claims were true. Seven major companies issued a report in 1990 saying they felt vaporware had hurt the industry's credibility. The United States accused several companies of announcing vaporware early in violation of antitrust laws, but few have been found guilty."

Canon has been guilty of announcing MULTIPLE "new products" more than a year in advance, as a way to try and keep people from defecting to the superior Nikon D3,D3s,and D3x camp. Most of their vaporware is high-end stuff, announced looooong before it is ready to be shipped to retailers. Like Canon's answer to Nikon's 200-400 VR...Canon announced a 200-400 f/4 lens with a built-in,permanent 1.4x converter....where the hell is that lens at? Same with their new teles...a year in advance....Canon calls its vaporware "Development Announcements". The attempt is to try and cause fear, uncertainty, and doubt within the market, to "freeze" customers, and to take credit (publicity, internet buzz, rumor-spreading,etc) for chit they actually have no ability whatsoever to either manufacture, or to ship. That, my Village Idiot friend, is "vaporware-like". Creating one, or two show cameras, like the 1DX, is pretty easy to do. All one needs is three cameras--one for North America, on for Europe, one for Asia.

Right now, the entire photography market at the higher end has severely constrained supply on ANY product that customers TRULY want to buy. An article on Luminous Landscape mentioned that the big Canon telephotos, and pro bodies, were basically "unavailable" for purchase. Mark Dubovny wrote an article entitled, "Is The Photographic Supply Chain Totally Broken?" posted at
Is the Photo Equipment Supply Chain Totally Broken?

Dubovny lists six separate, discrete reasons why equipment supplies are constrained.