Noms noms!

[gsgary]

I can't remember if I rained on anyone's parade here... ever, but I have to tell you this work is not up to par.

The lack of any lighting scheme is killing all of these. As epatsellis eluded to, there's no punch, modeling, texture... it's just not there.

The second bunch is much better with the closer cropping. And, yes... the DoF is a bit shallow on some. But man, the lack of lighting is a real problem.

Your composition is OK. There is a lack of attention to detail, which is very important when working in this close... stray crumbs, smeared icing...

I understand you got a lot done in little time, and sometimes that's all the job allows. But please don't believe that this is good photography.

Truly, my intent is not to hurt. It had to said. I'd want to know if I were in your shoes.

-Pete

That is your opinion and you are more than entitled to it....

HOWEVER....the shop owner thinks that is not just good photography, it's great photography and I now have a contract with him for the entire time he is in business. We all come from different necks of the woods, and I guess where you are, things have to be shot with big fancy equipment that we out here in the sticks can't afford. I recently purchased a macro ring flash, macro extension tubes, and a second off camera flash with wireless set up just for this client. All discounted equipment, so I am sure it still won't be up to par for some, but I got paid for a job that I thought and that the shop owner thought was well done.

I don't mind the constructive criticism at all about the stray crumbs and such, that is stuff I can use for the next shoot. However I do take offense when you say this is not good photography. That's just how I feel. This is something I was really proud of, and then to be told that it is not good (albeit you are the ONLY one who has said so), kind of crushes the spirit whether it is meant to or not. That comment could have been left out, it was not constructive in the least.

Edit: Now that I have checked out some of your responses to others in this forum, I don't feel so bad anymore. You are this high and mighty with everyone.

Thanks to everyone else as well about the comments about DOF. I am going to work on that on next month's shoot and try to get a little more in focus.

I was going to say the same as Christie but bit my lip, no point getting upset, get even and make the next shoot better

 

[KAikens318]

It's hard not to get upset sometimes. I work so hard to try and get this stuff down, and every time I think I have done really well, I post in here, and get S&$t on every single time. I don't have the time or money to go to school for photography, or ever take a single class. I can't afford nice equipment. I make do with the used equipment I have and try as hard as I can to get tips from the people that help in here, or to watch as many Youtube tutorials and read as many books as I can, but it starts to bring me down and sometimes make me think that I shouldn't be doing this because I am no good. Don't get me wrong, the constructive stuff, I listen to, I take it back with me, and I try to use it to my advantage. Being told you are no good flat out, hurtful. Especially when this is what I want to do with my life, and actually, I am making a pretty good living with it right now, so people must be happy with what I do. I have been booked for a ton of weddings this season, a newborn shoot, maternity shoot, I have the contract with the cupcake guy, and even do some freelance stuff for the local news. But maybe it's just because I live in a small town, not a big city, so expectations aren't as high around here. I don't know. I just get frustrated when I am so proud of the stuff I have done and then it just gets slammed by people in here. Happens everytime. Perhaps I will just be an observer for a while and build some confidence back up before I get slammed for my work again.

 

[gsgary]

It's hard not to get upset sometimes. I work so hard to try and get this stuff down, and every time I think I have done really well, I post in here, and get S&$t on every single time. I don't have the time or money to go to school for photography, or ever take a single class. I can't afford nice equipment. I make do with the used equipment I have and try as hard as I can to get tips from the people that help in here, or to watch as many Youtube tutorials and read as many books as I can, but it starts to bring me down and sometimes make me think that I shouldn't be doing this because I am no good. Don't get me wrong, the constructive stuff, I listen to, I take it back with me, and I try to use it to my advantage. Being told you are no good flat out, hurtful. Especially when this is what I want to do with my life, and actually, I am making a pretty good living with it right now, so people must be happy with what I do. I have been booked for a ton of weddings this season, a newborn shoot, maternity shoot, I have the contract with the cupcake guy, and even do some freelance stuff for the local news. But maybe it's just because I live in a small town, not a big city, so expectations aren't as high around here. I don't know. I just get frustrated when I am so proud of the stuff I have done and then it just gets slammed by people in here. Happens everytime. Perhaps I will just be an observer for a while and build some confidence back up before I get slammed for my work again.

All my stuff used to be secondhand and i used to get knocked but the more i got knocked the better i got

 

[wuint]

When it comes right down to it the only thing that matters is the client. If your clients are happy you'll get the jobs and make a living at this. Everyone has room to grow and learn, even the people critiquing you it's how we all get better. Just keep your head up and try and improve from the critique and don't get discouraged.

 

[Dominantly]

Didn't read any of the other comments.

My first impression was that the images were shot with too thin of a DOF. The next is the lighting seems to be kind of plain.

For the DOF... With the first image, the very front of the cupcake is OOF, then you taper into the sharp area, and then quickly taper and fade away again before the rear edge of the cake. This just gives you a thin, acceptable area of focus. Not very appealing.

I did the very same thing my first go with a gourmet chocolate company, shooting their truffles.

 

[KAikens318]

Didn't read any of the other comments.

My first impression was that the images were shot with too thin of a DOF. The next is the lighting seems to be kind of plain.

For the DOF... With the first image, the very front of the cupcake is OOF, then you taper into the sharp area, and then quickly taper and fade away again before the rear edge of the cake. This just gives you a thin, acceptable area of focus. Not very appealing.

I did the very same thing my first go with a gourmet chocolate company, shooting their truffles.

I bought a macro flash ring and also a wireless flash trigger so that I can have some different lighting next time, I am going to bring my reflector with me as well. Now that I know a little more about the setting and the lighting in the room I am shooting in, I will have a little better of an idea as to what I need for the shoot.

 

[Christie Photo]

...every time I think I have done really well, I post in here, and get S&$t on every single time.

I don't have the time or money to go to school for photography, or ever take a single class.

You say it continues to happen and then in the next breath you say you're doing little to rectify your approach. I truly understand time and money restraints, but it does take time to build your skills. For most of us, it doesn't happen in weeks or months.

I can't afford nice equipment. I make do with the used equipment I have...

Good. That's the smart way to do it... gradually. And, used equipment is often nice... in good working order. I too buy used whenever the situation allows. And don't put too much into the importance of equipment. Yes... it's nice. And often a job is easier with good tools. Focus more on the task. Then work on what you need to execute your plan.

...sometimes make me think that I shouldn't be doing this because I am no good.

I don't think anyone here has said YOU are no good. What I'm saying is you have a way to go with this type of photography. Food photography is a tough nut. It's quite different from portraiture or wedding candids. I do a fair amount of product work, but I would be nervous taking on any amount of food photography. If you find yourself wondering if you should be doing it, it's likely you don't feel enough in control.

Being told you are no good flat out, hurtful. Especially when this is what I want to do with my life...

Again, this is just one job in a very difficult field. Hearing you want to make a career of photography makes this discussion all the more important... at least for me. You're finding out that developing your skills is not an immediate thing. It doesn't happen all at once. You can't expect to hit a home run every try, but you will be expected to get on base... every time at bat. I wrestled with telling you my thoughts, but decided to speak up when I saw the others telling you this was a home run. My remarks were directed at them as much as the photography.

...actually, I am making a pretty good living with it right now, so people must be happy with what I do.

Good. It sounds like you're right where you need to be right now.

Perhaps I will just be an observer for a while and build some confidence back up before I get slammed for my work again.

Taking a breather is fine, but build up your knowledge and experience. Confidence will follow. If your work (not you) gets "slammed" again, it simply means there's more to learn.

When I think of all the mediocre work that I've done (and continue to do), I wonder if I have the right to say any of this. I like to think I do. I merely wanted to share some real-world experience, putting things back into proper perspective.

 

[Christie Photo]

When it comes right down to it the only thing that matters is the client.

No. No it isn't. Not for professionals. Not for those of us who care about our craft. And not for those of us who strive to grow.

The clients pay our bills. That is important, but it's not the only thing that matters.

-Pete

 

[Fujito]

You did ok :thumbup:, for me you need more light and more diffusion and better focus

Focus?? Really? Food photography is usually shot with a small DOF...

I think the focus looks fine personally

Not always. That is a very small DOF in some of the pics.

 

[epatsellis]

When it comes right down to it the only thing that matters is the client.

No. No it isn't. Not for professionals. Not for those of us who care about our craft. And not for those of us who strive to grow.

The clients pay our bills. That is important, but it's not the only thing that matters.

-Pete

I'll amplify this a little....

As a working commercial shooter and graphic artist for probably as long as Pete has been, I have seen the same lowering of standards in the field. When I first started shooting in the mid 80's, it was a huge investment to shoot commercially, typically around $100K to set up a decent working product studio. You had to know your stuff, as you wouldn't see the final product until the chromes came back from the lab and unless you had several bays, you may have stricken the set by then.

We always worked with Art Directors for the client, who often had at least bachelor's degrees in art and understood the finer points of composition, color theory and had a good idea how to create compelling, dynamic images. We had blue lines to shoot to, and the page/ad/poster design was created from the ground up, based on sound design principles and effective typography, designed to be visually appealing and communicate and idea/concept. The photography was expected to be of the same high quality, photography wasn't just seen as a means to an end, but as a product itself, and the shooters who understood that prospered.

Fast forward 25 years, and we no longer have agencies like we once did, AD's are for the most part, gone. And instead of talented, experienced graphic artists we have everybody and their brother with an interest in it designing everything under the sun as if it's a school project. 99% of these people have never worked with quality imagery, nor care (or even know, much less understand) about the finer points of composition, color theory, typography and such. To them, their pirated copy of Creative Suite saves them from paying a real designer and they typically flounder around with a design until it looks acceptable to them. Even worse, as a designer I have clients who insist on taking designs that work and making the stupidest changes imaginable, changing an effective piece to trash. The art of graphic design is slowly eroding to a "good enough" mentality, where anything above mediocrity is seen as great.

Shooting imagery that excels takes time and experience. Attention to details is paramount. I've had food stylists (yes they actually do exist) actually place sesame seeds on unseeded buns "creatively" until the right composition is found. Ever see a food shoot? Imagine slicing 10 tomatoes until you find just the right slice. How about de leafing a dozen heads of lettuce until you find the right leaf?
Ever see pictures of vegetables with perfect little water droplets on them? Typically, they're applied, one by one, with a toothpick or bamboo skewer (and they're not even water, they're glycerine). That gorgeous roast turkey you see? Barely cooked, usually with a portable propane torch, then the coloring painted on (GravyMaster makes a great browning agent). The perfect hamburger you see in ads? Mostly raw, browned with a torch and grill marks added with a soldering iron. These are but a few examples to illustrate the attention to detail you need to aspire to if you want to ascend from good to great.

Pete mentioned lighting, partly in response to my initial comment. There are many good resources available on food photography, check out your local library to start. I'm sure Manchester has a community college, you may want to see what classes the offer, one class at a time isn't too expensive and you will gain an insight into many of the concepts and ideas you will see Pete and I mention over and over again. Investigate your options, you may be surprised.

Personally, I'm a big fan of more dynamic lighting for food, the use of a grazing light in you chocolate chip cookies, for example, will transform the image into something that shows texture better and has some decent shadow with a slightly harder edge to them. Compositionally, you need to become more dynamic, using diagonal lines and angles to imply dynamicism would help a lot. There's nothing wrong with the use of gestaltic completion to help engage the viewer (for example, seeing most of a cookie in a frame, the mind "knows" it's a complete cookie, that simple act of making the mind think causes the viewer to interact with the image) Effective use of DOF is intended to draw your eye to the product, insufficient depth of field makes food look unappealing and "wrong" subconsciously.

Don't take these criticisms personally, food photography is one of the hardest fields to get right, there's so many secrets and little known tricks that anybody's first tries will not be up to snuff, whether you're shooting with speedlights or a studio full of gear.

 

[Natred]

I think you did a really great job!! I did my first food shots this week and posted a thread about them. I was surprised to hear that you shot them with a ring flash. I've never used one of those...maybe I should get one!! I'd love to do some fun dessert shots, I may have to post on my facebook to see if anyone needs any.

 

[wlbphoto]

thanks for making me want sweets now =/

 

[gsgary]

Ditch the ring flash it will give you very flat boring lighting for this sort of thing, dedicated food photographers can take hours just setting up lighting for just one shot

 

[Canon AE-1]

I've never shot food in my life, so take this as a reaction from an experienced photographer with little experience in this space.

First off, the shots seem well exposed and relatively sharp, which is great.

To me, I wonder at the DOF being SO shallow... shallow seems good, but it also seems like you didn't need to go so far as having some of the food out of focus (or at least not THAT out of focus). If you had more distractions in the background, I'd say yes, but you seem to have none.

I also wonder a bit at the dead space. Some seems appropriate, but you seem to have more than I would expect in a lot of the shots.

I also wonder a bit about presentation... while these look technically good, I often see food "setup" with other things to make it seem more appealing or inviting- though maybe that was choice by your customer.

Just some comments- again take 'em with a grain of salt, but I hope they are helpful.

You beat me to it, i concur.

 

[rub]

I know it can feel like people are coming down on you, but PLEASE read the critiques as a way to raise yourself up. The industry is full of substandard work (and sadly, I myself am often in that category) but I post here not for a pat on the back and a job well done, but a chance to hear from PROFESSIONALS on how I can continue to grow and advance so that my work will be noticable and respected in the digital photography world.

Having a happy client is part of the battle. Being from the sticks is no excuse for a good enough attitude. I find that unless you majorly screw the pooch, your clients will love the images you present. I see photographers present clients with underexposed, underlit, soft images all the time. And the clients praise them for being amazing artists. If someone would just tell them, hey, that photo is underexposed, the composition is poor, etc, they could make their work so much more appealing.

Unfortunatly people are always worried about offending, that it just reinforces the negative habits many new photographers have (again, for me included.)

Try see this as a huge learning opportunity. Next round of images for this client will be better, and as your skills advance, so will your bank account.

K