Noob question, is there a way to 'meter' color?

[John27]

Hey all,

Okay so I'm just not starting to learn a little about light, I've taken a solemn vow to never use the pop-up flash again, and have started really learning that light is what separates the good pictures from the bad!

But I was in a unique situation today. I've ordered some gels but they aren't in yet, so it wouldn't have mattered tonight anyway. But my little sister had a high school band concert and I was shooting. Certainly not ideal, shooting from the balcony and my only long zoom lens is a cheaper 75-300 III. But anywho, I was using the Yongnuo flash and it was doing surprisingly well firing that far, at full power most of the time. But of course the color was off, because it was mixed lighting.

Now I know that, using a gel, I could match the color of the lighting and thus set the white balance accordingly. I've even got a gray card to help me do that! BUT...

The gymnasium was not using metal halide or halogen lights. They were using some extremely high output flourescents. My first thought was maybe T5 HO lighting, but that is usually daylight anyway? The images came out red when set to flash white balance. Should that tell me something?

So long story short... if you are unsure of what the lighting is, BUT, the lighting is consistent (the entire gym was lit with the same fixtures), how can you best determine what gels to use?

Sorry for the newbie question, but hoping someone can point me in the right direction. If my gels were in I could have experimented but I'd prefer to be able to just 'know'. My thought process is, if my 5600K flash (yellowish, right?), then if the lighting was more blue, I would get green toned pictures (And would correct with a CTB gel). Am I warm? Way off base? So then, what could cause me to get reddish skin tones? Red is a primary color!

So anyway, thanks for the help!

 

[Pallycow]

I could be wrong here, but in a situation like that, if I could not use a gray card, I would set to auto WB just because, and shoot raw and fix it in post. Being light was constant, you could make the same correction/adjustment to all of the set in lightroom.

my 2 cents.

 

[John27]

I could be wrong here, but in a situation like that, if I could not use a gray card, I would set to auto WB just because, and shoot raw and fix it in post. Being light was constant, you could make the same correction/adjustment to all of the set in lightroom.

my 2 cents.

The issue is mixed lighting, otherwise it could just be fixed in post no problem. The flash fires at 5600K, but the lights in the school were a different temperature (but not bright enough to handle the higher shutter speed needed for the long lens, so I need a flash), meaning I have two colors of light on my subject. The way to fix it is to stick a gel on the flash that matches the color of the lights.

What I DON'T know, is how to determine what gel to use if you aren't absolutely sure of what color the available light is, aside from randomly swapping gels.

 

[KmH]

measure light color - Bing

See the second entry for the HCT-99D

 

[John27]

measure light color - Bing

See the second entry for the HCT-99D

Phew, I think a t1i and some of canons more inexpensive lenses, coupled with a $3,000 color meter might be a tad lop sided in the equipment department. I appreciate the info though.

So I guess, barring an expensive meter, perhaps the only solution is just to eyeball it or guess?

 

[Vautrin]

measure light color - Bing

See the second entry for the HCT-99D

Phew, I think a t1i and some of canons more inexpensive lenses, coupled with a $3,000 color meter might be a tad lop sided in the equipment department. I appreciate the info though.

So I guess, barring an expensive meter, perhaps the only solution is just to eyeball it or guess?

"Just eyeballing it" isn't so bad. You are, after all, trying to make visually appealing pictures not doing a scientific experiment, right?

Because if you're just trying to create a good image, you WANT to eyeball it. Your flashes, your gels, and those lights will all have different temperatures, and you might find even with a gel you need to adjust white balance.

The key is to shoot in raw. Then open your photos in Lightroom or Photoshop, and move the whitebalance sliders till skin tones and everything looks correct.

If you have mixed lighting, you may need to "paint" white balance with a brush.

Then when the image looks good, that's it, you're done

 

[unpopular]

no need to spend $3,000 on a color meter!

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Minolta-Color-Meter-3F-/281033386575?pt=US_Light_Meters&hash=item416ee52a4f

Though, you could use a grey card and use "auto WB" and record the measurement.

 

[skieur]

YES, there is. Sony and Canon have peaking level meters that can be adjusted for particular colours.

skieur

 

[fjrabon]

I deal with this a lot, so I'm fairly good at eyeballing it.

Here is my method:

1) pull my flash off camera, put expo disc on my lens, take a flash reference shot. Set custom WB from that. Then leave expo disco on, turn flash off, take a shot of ambient. Look at the resulting color cast.

2) based on the color cast that the shot white balanced for your flash produced, pick your gel. At this point you can simply just match up your gel to the color that the whit balanced shot came out. you can literally hold your LCD up to your gels and pick the one that matches best.

3) put that color gel on, and then white balance off your flash.

4) no more mixed color lighting! And you don't have to do much with WB in post either.

 

[unpopular]

I want to know where these $3k light meters are.

I mean, are people modifying laboratory spectrophotometers?

 

[John27]

I want to know where these $3k light meters are.

I mean, are people modifying laboratory spectrophotometers?

No idea. KmH referenced an HCT-99-D, and this was one of only a couple places I could find it for sale (most are just 'info' pages, probably something that is mostly sold through dealer catalogs). Gigahertz-Optik Inc. HCT-99-D Luminous Color Meter on sale at Global Test Supply

I deal with this a lot, so I'm fairly good at eyeballing it.

Here is my method:

1) pull my flash off camera, put expo disc on my lens, take a flash reference shot. Set custom WB from that. Then leave expo disco on, turn flash off, take a shot of ambient. Look at the resulting color cast.

2) based on the color cast that the shot white balanced for your flash produced, pick your gel. At this point you can simply just match up your gel to the color that the whit balanced shot came out. you can literally hold your LCD up to your gels and pick the one that matches best.

3) put that color gel on, and then white balance off your flash.

4) no more mixed color lighting! And you don't have to do much with WB in post either.

Thanks! That's what I'm looking for. I think I have the concept of gels down, that is, you want the flash to be close to the color temperature of the ambient light so that you can more accurately set the white balance (such as with a gray card, which is what I had been doing for WB). What I didn't understand was how to efficiently determine the appropriate gel to use. I learned to use my camera by playing with settings and re-taking a shot 15 times before I got it right. Bad move. Finally forced myself to understand and conceptualize the exposure triangle and what exactly each of these parts do, and it has made my life a lot easier and my images much better. So, with this new foray into lighting, I figured I'd start the right way, and understand it at a conceptual level rather than 'plug n' chug'

 

[unpopular]

Yeah. Those meters are WAY, WAY, WAY more than what you'd want. Those are for scientific and engineering purposes. Even modern sekonic meters are around $1500. Plus I doubt that these meters provide Color Correction information in hand.

Having a color meter is useful, it's faster and more accurate than the other methods.

 

[John27]

Yeah. Those meters are WAY, WAY, WAY more than what you'd want. Those are for scientific and engineering purposes. Even modern sekonic meters are around $1500. Plus I doubt that these meters provide Color Correction information in hand.

Having a color meter is useful, it's faster and more accurate than the other methods.

It's something to think about in the future, but right now I think my money is best spent elsewhere in terms of improving image quality. An inexpensive light meter maybe, but even spending a few hundred bucks, to me, would seem silly as that same money could be used towards some second-hand L glass or better lighting equipment.

At least right now, high end light meters seem like putting a cart before a horse (or.. buying a cart before you have a horse!)

 

[unpopular]

Let me think on this for a bit. You should be able to accurately use your internal meter and easily and precisely calculate which CC filter to use by just using a grey card or expo disk.