Other forums.

[Calliope]

I agree with aprilraven... after being here for a period of time, you really begin to realize those who truly have talent - not necessarily the ones who know all the technical stuff. I've also learned that there are several different levels of photographers here: from beginners truly wanting to learn more to people who just shoot and share to highly talented photographers. When you find the truly talented photographers, I've seen that most (if not all since I haven't pm'd every talented photographer) are really receptive to helping you and giving you "honest" and sometimes brutal advice.

I put myself in the beginners phase and really appreciate encouragement from others. I also don't post in the critique gallery (although I really think the critique gallery is a great idea) - I just don't feel I'm good enough yet to have that kind of critique... I like the one on one critique. Fortunately, I live with what I think is an awesome photographer...

I agree that "technical" knowledge does not necessarily make a nice photo. I also realize that I have different tastes than others - JM & I have different views of photography and there have been a couple of photos he's purchased that I don't want hung in any "public" part of the house - they have to go in his office somewhere... but that's his taste. There's photos I've had to get rid of b/c we couldn't agree on the "artistic value."

My point in all this is critique is very subjective and it's still good to be polite in your critique. And what's crap to some is art to others.

 

[ThomThomsk]

Analog Photography Users Group www.apug.org, especially for the galleries and the darkroom and b&w film/chemistry forums. 11,000 members and growing, it's an amazing resource.

Rangefinder Forum, http://www.rangefinderforum.com, because it's all about rangefinders.

Finally the Leica forum on photo.net, if only for the guy who is converting an M2 to a 10 megapixel digital, designing the electronics and writing the software himself and calling it the M2aD. Looks like it's going to work too.

Thomsk

 

[JonMikal]

Analog Photography Users Group www.apug.org, especially for the galleries and the darkroom and b&w film/chemistry forums. 11,000 members and growing, it's an amazing resource.

wow, that's an impressive site.

 

[nitefly]

There is a screenshot of my forums tab on my favourites toolbar! I visit quite alot! Except from RawMusicians.com, which I own, they're all there! They descend, starting from the top, in order of farouritism :thumbup:

 

[Karalee]

Im probably one of the biggest photo forum whores on the board. It all started with this one, I mod at another photo forum, I belong to a rangefinder forum, a forum for female photographers, and Im part of the flickr community. I also belong to apug, POTN, and fredmiranda, although I dont post there, I use them a lot for sourcing information.

The first step is admitting you have a problem or something isnt it?

 

[markc]

i just have noticed that some people think art is a technical thing, and something that follows rules.... art is very eclectic....and very much a personal and opinionated form of self expression....

I've seen that said a couple of times, but I personally haven't don't believe that's the case here. Of course I may be one of the ones that people think this of. Personally I do believe there are rules when it comes to art. Not as to what you should make as art, but more of a grammar. It can be hard to express yourself in written form if you don't follow the rules of language. I might write "Efule ap gallump ga-ga, " and it might mean something to me, but if I want someone else to "get it", I need to follow some rules. James Joyce broke the rules, but he was very familiar with them so he knew how to break them. Same with Picasso. Take a look at some of his early work.

And I don't think weird stuff automatically makes it uncritiqueable (if that's a word). For me it's not about a prefect exposure or prefect sharpness. It's about a statement, and if I get that statement. Does the image say what the photographer wanted it to say, regardless of the viewer wanting to hear it.

Joel-Peter Witkin works with corpses. I can find his work very difficult to look at. Here's a milder one. (Still... *fair warning*) Now I could nitpick a bit about the exposure, but really, I find this piece successful even if I'm not keen on looking at it. There's a story about it that goes beyond the immediate visual impact. If I were to critique it, I would be hard pressed to come up with anything other than nitpicks, and I'd say so. Some of his other images I don't find as successful, as they don't seem to be much more than posed corpses to me, but I'm not as good at reading still-lifes.

And yes, I do believe that reading photography is a skill. There's a grammar and definitions, just like a verbal language. And I'm only just getting my feet wet with it.

 

[Big Mike]

I read two or three other photo forums on a regular basis...but rarely post to them. Photo.net is a huge resource of info and has some amazing talents there...but the forums are a mish mash of the same questions over and over again...with some harsh, cynical people...and some good tidbits here and there.

I read a few others on a not-so-regular basis, including some Photoshop forums.

 

[anicole]

I can still remember the first photograph I saw on this site. I also remember thinking, "Yeah, like I'm ever going to be able to take a photo that would even be worth throwing away on this site!" But I hung around and read posts ... watched the dynamics ... found it a really friendly place. So I joined.

Personally, I think the encouragement is what makes quite a few people join ... and what keeps others around. If someone is new or lacking in knowledge, the only way they will be able to move forward is to hear encouragement to keep trying. If a person is told so many things are wrong with each shot and that they probably didn't even press the button right, then heck no they're not going to continue to post ... and will probably stop taking pictures all together.

I couldn't tell you one technical term from another so I rarely use any. I guess my comments would fall under 'inane jabber' to some on here, but when I post a picture, I take all the comments, from technical to 'good to see you using your camera' and draw on those. There are many times that I won't publicly post a shot, but I'll pm it to someone and ask for opinions.

I searched a lot of threads and found that I tend to lean toward certain styles ... therefore I migrate to those people and formed bonds. They do things I want to learn, so I get to know them. That doesn't mean that I don't like anyone else's shots or them, as a person, it just means that I have common views with others. I still find things I like about their posts and comment and encourage, even though it's not my style.

Honest critique is one thing. Everyone can take that ... even though you may not agree with the opinions. Petty public slaps are another matter entirely, though they happen quite often.

I'm glad that I've been encouraged as much as I have by so many people and I'm glad that I've made some friends.

 

[Alison]

wow, that's an impressive site.

It is. Interestingly the first post in their feedback section is someone saying it's hard to get a good critique there as well.

I personally don't visit any other photography sites. I had done quite a bit of searching before finding TPF and none had the type of community and activity that I was looking for. Constructive criticims, or critique can be difficult to obtain. It takes a lot of time and effort on both the poster of the photo and the person replying. We have made changes to the critique forum to help facilitate better critique and I think they have been noticible. In the past, that forum was viewed as an extension of the general gallery.

I have been fortunate enough to see a great many photographs grow and change during their time on TPF. I think there is a strong community here, and at times it might feel hard to offer advice to people who are good friends as well. I personally find it easier to critique or offer suggestions to people that I know on a more personal level. Aubrey and I routinely ask each other for suggestions or ideas on how to improve and I'm not offended when he tells me that an image needs more contrast, or the crop isn't right, or that in all honesty it really should be headed for the trash bin.

I don't think it's possible for one forum to meet everyone's needs, hence why there are a lot of different photography forums out there. I say lead by example. If you feel the critique forum isn't serving it's purpose then get out there and offer critique. Others will follow you.

It reminds me of a conversation I had with my son about art. He came home one day with a coloring book page than in essence was covered in scribbles. He had used a lot of colors and it appeared he had a good time coloring. He asked me if I thought it was beautiful. I told him I liked the colors a lot. He then relayed that his teacher said he needed to color in the lines. My son comes from a long line of artistic people, and I just looked at him and advised that the next time the teacher told him he had to color in the lines he should say "Art is personal". I later talked with the teacher and explained that we usually give the boys plain paper and crayons and let them draw what they want. I know that the teacher was looking to increase small motor skills, but there are other activities that can do that. My point is that the teacher saw a drawing that didn't follow her "technical" rules and offered suggestion. I focused on the colors and thought it was great. The same can be said for photography. I often see images that aren't really my style, but get loads of praise from others. That's what I like about the critique section, it focuses on specific issues that the photographer has questions about.

I'm not sure that any of my rambling has helped here, but I wanted to reply anyway

 

[Chiller]

I have checked out some other forums, and only post on one other the odd time. Im surprised at the different views and comments I get. Some are completely opposite to the others.
I have very little tech skills, and basically take what I see...cause I dont have a choice. I am still learning how to make it better, which I do from being on here.
I dont have any photoshop skills, and am trying to learn that too.
As for artwork...If I like it..I like it. Each person is different, and can see things in there own mind, but nobody is wrong. Just enjoy what you see.
Since I have no intention on being a professional, I just want to enjoy what photos I take, and I would rather be on a forum like TPF. I find the people here make this forum better.

 

[bace]

I've seen that said a couple of times, but I personally haven't don't believe that's the case here. Of course I may be one of the ones that people think this of. Personally I do believe there are rules when it comes to art. Not as to what you should make as art, but more of a grammar. It can be hard to express yourself in written form if you don't follow the rules of language. I might write "Efule ap gallump ga-ga, " and it might mean something to me, but if I want someone else to "get it", I need to follow some rules. James Joyce broke the rules, but he was very familiar with them so he knew how to break them. Same with Picasso. Take a look at some of his early work.

And I don't think weird stuff automatically makes it uncritiqueable (if that's a word). For me it's not about a prefect exposure or prefect sharpness. It's about a statement, and if I get that statement. Does the image say what the photographer wanted it to say, regardless of the viewer wanting to hear it.

Joel-Peter Witkin works with corpses. I can find his work very difficult to look at. Here's a milder one. (Still... *fair warning*) Now I could nitpick a bit about the exposure, but really, I find this piece successful even if I'm not keen on looking at it. There's a story about it that goes beyond the immediate visual impact. If I were to critique it, I would be hard pressed to come up with anything other than nitpicks, and I'd say so. Some of his other images I don't find as successful, as they don't seem to be much more than posed corpses to me, but I'm not as good at reading still-lifes.

And yes, I do believe that reading photography is a skill. There's a grammar and definitions, just like a verbal language. And I'm only just getting my feet wet with it.

:thumbup:

You can take pictures of whatever you want. Some of it is art, and some of it is just a picture. For the people that just take pictures, I don't say anything. For the people that understand art, that's when I comment.

Also, I've seen some of the most unartistic technically sound pictures on this site. I can't comment on those either, because you can't argue with someone who has their own studio with $10k worth of equipment. They ARE photographers. You can't tell them any different.

 

[terri]

It is. Interestingly the first post in their feedback section is someone saying it's hard to get a good critique there as well.

I've joined there and it was the first thing I noticed, too. I didn't even comment, because it was too much like reading the same thing that goes on here.

I think it takes guts for some of our newer photographers to even post one of their images. To think someone might be harsh in offering a critique might keep someone from posting, subsequently preventing them from learning from something that should be offered up as a learning tool.

Our work is very personal to us, and matters a lot - regardless of our individual level of accomplishment. Showing it to the *world* and waiting for feedback can be traumatic to some. People seem quick to want to scoff at that vulnerability, or downplay its importance, but I must agree, there is a right and wrong way to offer up *critique*.

 

[Arch]

For me its very simple...... an image does not have to be 100% technically sound to be a good picture.....which is why i like this forum. As for 'Art' the question of what is or isn't art (how long have you got?!) it has been in our culture for years and will never go away... there is no...this is art....and this isn't..... according to who? I was taught through 5 years of art college that you can question anything as being art... and you are entitled to your own opinion... Look at some recent Brit Artists...Tracy Emin for one.... the 'Un-made Bed', caused much controversy when she exibited it at the Tate.... so many people commented that it wasn't art..... but she thought of this idea... it represented her life...her mood.... her state of mind.... as many painters have expressed in thier works.... so Art its open to all possibilites. I would never consider a picture unworthy of being art simply because of artistic nievety..... if there is real passion and conviction from the photographer then it will have its merits in my book, no matter how good the image is technically.

I'v seen some amazingly imaginative untechnical shots on here.... and some unbelievably boring technically sound shots.....says it all.

 

[LaFoto]

With regards to commenting, I find it important to go with a couple of facts about the photographic author of the displayed pic.

Like someone has said you cannot argue with pros since they make their living with their photography, so you better not say there is little artistic merit in their perfect work, you cannot (or should not, I think) tell someone who has just joined and declared themselves a newbie to photography - maybe even along with still being very young - that their photos lack all the artistic aspects you look for in photos.

I think that is not what a public, open-to-all forum such as this one is there for.

Particularly the newbies need a guiding hand.
Not only in the Critique Forum.
Also in the Landscape and Nature or General Gallery.

When they post their photos and ask for comments and something springs to mind, I will speak my mind (given there's enough time for me to pass comments). And if that includes my noticing that some of the "rules" ("grammar" is a good word, used her by MarkC) do not particularly HELP the photo to be one that people are likely to look at a second time, I also say so. As nicely as I can, mostly putting my critique into question form.

What does it help people if others totally tear apart someone's work that they deemed worth being shown to a "worldwide audience" - erm: crowd of spectators? It will only hurt people. The younger they are the worse the hurt, but even at my age, rudeness will continue to hurt.

No comments signalling little to no interest at all is worse than comments pointing out not-so-good-aspects, by the way! No comments at all can hurt a whole, whole lot. So not to reply to photos that "don't speak" to you need not necessarily be the best of all ideas, either. (Though I know that we can go through stages where commenting does not come so easily, when we are very busy or so, I know, I know, I know!)

Oh, forgot to answer the question: no other photography forum in the internet for me. One other author's fan forum. That is all.

 

[ThomThomsk]

wow, that's an impressive site.

Certainly is. They had over 700 new members join in January alone. And people think film is dead...

Thomsk