Photographing family and many pets!!!

[imagemaker46]

I admire you professional photographers who do this for a living, especially those who are full time photographers! But, I have to say that in my short time here the word "business" is a word of contempt in many cases. I relate it to an amateur musician making some money playing open mic nights, or a bar band playing their hearts out for $300 every weekend. Nobody said these are the greatest musicians in the world, but would you want your cover charge back because the band sucked? Sometimes you probably hear a pretty darn good band and think it was a steal to hear such a talented band for a $5 cover charge! My photography is an open mic night, a bar band if you will. I'm new, inexpensive, and convenient.

The musician analogy is an excellent one; may I use that? To respond, I would ask, "How many of those garage musicians (and I mean no disrespect whatsoever with that term) get a weekend gig at a pub having only had their guitar/sax/bass/harpsichord for only a few months? I'm willing to bet not many. Most of them have probably been practicing since they were in school and have many hours work to their credit before they get their first paid job.

The part that really saddens me is that people like the OP and I are not taken seriously here. We are newbies, and our product isn't worth a lick in some of your books. But, as a guitar player I've learned to have thick skin. EVERY guitar player I run across can outplay Jimi Hendrix...just how it goes.

Not the case at all. We're trying to help! It sounds harsh, even hurtful, but the reality is, many people don't know how much they don't know. To refer to your musician's analogy, would you say to me, if I had purchased my guitar six months ago (never having played a note in my life before that) and could now just manage to play "Stairway to Heaven" (more or less) I should seek paying gigs? I'm betting not!

I can't speak for the OP, but I for example certainly say that! I inform the client that I am trying to make a name for myself and grow my client base through word of mouth, and I offer them a very reasonable rate. You want to know something crazy? I have had TERRIBLE luck getting people to let me take their photos for free. It's like I am wasting their time if I offer them a free session. I've had much better luck with a discounted rate than I ever had offering free photos. Once my portfolio grows and I get some decent experience, I plan to create a reasonable but realistic rate. I'm not the best photographer in the world by a LONG shot, but I will give my clients more than they pay for in most cases.

And the problem there will be raising your rates. People who paid you $50 last year for their Christmas card shot are not going to be pleased when you say the same shot this will cost them $200! Like Imagemaker, I have NO issue with anyone trying to make a go of paid photography, but I do feel that it's important to get across to them how to do it correctly.

Ah see, you've caught me at my own analogy lol! The proof is in the product. If a band has a bunch of new musicians that don't know how to play a lick and they get a bar gig, chances are they won't be playing many more gigs if you get my drift. To me, if a photographer isn't very good, then it will show in how quickly they get repeat and referral business.

You guys have been awesome. I actually don't take offense to much and it's hard to hurt my feelings. I just see a lot of people around here taking offense when newbies mention business and I'm just calling it like I see it. People think they are better than what they are, and it's difficult to hear the truth. I've sat through countless critiques as a graphics major so I'm almost numb to it. When critiques are based on preference though, I tend to ignore fully.

And imagemaker46, you make some killer points about photography today. We actually had many discussions on that topic in college. As I said above, the cream will rise to the top...or however the saying goes. Think of it like this...the amateur photographers are servicing a part of the market that the professionals will never reach. Plenty of people will pay $200 for a session and that's great, but for every person out there that will pay $200, there are 20 that wouldn't or couldn't spend more than $75. That's the target market for the newbies IMO.

What has changed is that there are is a lot of the market that professionals used to be required for, I used to make good money just doing simple head shots for media guides, company reports, etc, that side has vanished for me when digital rolled in Now they use someone in the office with a camera that could just take pictures, the quality may not be the same but that doesn't matter anymore. So those $75 shoots that I would have done 10 times a week is gone.

 

[Overread]

The Uni I went to did that - simple camera and ringflash for portraits of all the students in the department each year. A good 90-100 odd students per year and really all they needed was one of the techs in the department to do that for an afternoon. For the tiny picture on your profile and ID card its really all they need.

Heck some places (like the college I'm at now) now do it just with a webcam - again the quality isn't there but it suits their needs.

 

[imagemaker46]

I guess the Op has left the building.

 

[Shades of Blue]

I guess the Op has left the building.

Being new to this, I got my first taste this week of the "everyone's a photographer these days" mindset. In December, I had a family friend ask me to take pictures of her daughter this coming spring. I was on social media the other day and noticed she was posting a lot of photography oriented activity on her page. I then saw the new DSLR camera she purchased and how she's going to start taking pictures "professionally" as well.

It sort of hit home why professional photographers loathe the "beginner bunch." I get it, I really do. It sort of hurts because I've spent years interested in photography, having spent a lot of time in school even for photography, and now people just assume they can do it because they have a nice camera. I've even gotten some flak on this site just because I'm new to the business side and the negativity rears it's ugly head as soon as you mention that you are new to the business side.

I was always aware that professionals loathed the onslaught of beginning amateur photographers flooding the market.....I get it now, and I'm sorry.

 

[tirediron]

...I was always aware that professionals loathed the onslaught of beginning amateur photographers flooding the market.....I get it now, and I'm sorry.

It's not the beginning pros that are loathed (at least not by most), everyone has to start somewhere. Rather it's the people who think that literally all they need are a basic body, kit lens and a facebook page.

 

[imagemaker46]

Professionals have issues with other professionals. In this new age of "anyone can" it has become a challenge to even try and stay competitive with everyone. Photographers are back stabbing, poaching clients and willing to work for free, just to get a foot in the door. It no longer matters that someone has more experience, more skills and in many cases has even helped the others along the way. I have my own personal example that is just weeks old. For the past two seasons I have been the photographer for a pro football team. I started with them before they even had a name, helping out with pictures, did a few free startup shoots, the job was offered to me. The first season I worked my butt off building a data base of images for a brand new team. Last season I was told "we're glad to have you back" as the season went on, I took it on myself to make sure the players were looked after, I shot training camp and practices all season, over 150 non-paying shoots, I was paid to shoot the games, the rest I felt as a professional was my part of being the team photographer. At the end of the season, they started accepting images from the "photographers" that were handed passes to shoot the games, two of them had been shooting football less than two years.

Two weeks ago I was told by the VP of Communications that I would no longer be the "official" guy, that they wanted to use several photographers instead, these "several photographers" were not being paid. I was told that they still want me as the "players" photographer, I don't even know what that means, I don't know if I will be paid either(meeting in February to learn my role) This communications guy told me that he never looked at any photos I shot last season, he had no idea how much I was doing for the team, until I told him. I promote the team on social media, through facebook, twitter and instagram in the offseason, more than the team does. I do my own projects with the players in the off season at no charge, my idea, my cost.

I have been shooting football since 1969, I am regarded as one of the best football shooters in Canada, I work my ass off, but in the end it hasn't been enough, other photographers that I have helped along the way, have decided to poach a client so they can go to games. The VP sees that it's free, that's all. The players I've talked to are pissed off that I'm being treated this way, I appreciate the respect from them. There is no professional loyalty with many clients, I have some that I bend over backwards for, because they respect what I can offer them. So in the end I really lost this job, not because of my actions but because of the actions of other "professional" photographers. One is a condo manager with a full time day job making big money, one is a government consultant, making bigger money and the other is a weasel that undercuts everyone. All claim to be professional photographers, but have no professional ethics. Life goes on.

 

[Shades of Blue]

Professionals have issues with other professionals. In this new age of "anyone can" it has become a challenge to even try and stay competitive with everyone. Photographers are back stabbing, poaching clients and willing to work for free, just to get a foot in the door. It no longer matters that someone has more experience, more skills and in many cases has even helped the others along the way. I have my own personal example that is just weeks old. For the past two seasons I have been the photographer for a pro football team. I started with them before they even had a name, helping out with pictures, did a few free startup shoots, the job was offered to me. The first season I worked my butt off building a data base of images for a brand new team. Last season I was told "we're glad to have you back" as the season went on, I took it on myself to make sure the players were looked after, I shot training camp and practices all season, over 150 non-paying shoots, I was paid to shoot the games, the rest I felt as a professional was my part of being the team photographer. At the end of the season, they started accepting images from the "photographers" that were handed passes to shoot the games, two of them had been shooting football less than two years.

Two weeks ago I was told by the VP of Communications that I would no longer be the "official" guy, that they wanted to use several photographers instead, these "several photographers" were not being paid. I was told that they still want me as the "players" photographer, I don't even know what that means, I don't know if I will be paid either(meeting in February to learn my role) This communications guy told me that he never looked at any photos I shot last season, he had no idea how much I was doing for the team, until I told him. I promote the team on social media, through facebook, twitter and instagram in the offseason, more than the team does. I do my own projects with the players in the off season at no charge, my idea, my cost.

I have been shooting football since 1969, I am regarded as one of the best football shooters in Canada, I work my ass off, but in the end it hasn't been enough, other photographers that I have helped along the way, have decided to poach a client so they can go to games. The VP sees that it's free, that's all. The players I've talked to are pissed off that I'm being treated this way, I appreciate the respect from them. There is no professional loyalty with many clients, I have some that I bend over backwards for, because they respect what I can offer them. So in the end I really lost this job, not because of my actions but because of the actions of other "professional" photographers. One is a condo manager with a full time day job making big money, one is a government consultant, making bigger money and the other is a weasel that undercuts everyone. All claim to be professional photographers, but have no professional ethics. Life goes on.

Now that just sucks! I hate to hear that bro.

 

[vintagesnaps]

I'd think about taking along 'tear sheets' such as they are today, and along with telling the guy, show him what you've done the past two seasons - slap it on his desk, put it in front of his face! lol (Bleed all over 'em, let 'em know you're there! - Slapshot)

May not do any good but I'd probably at least show them what I did, bunch o' lame ass $%!&$... lol geez that makes me mad reading this. Idiot. (him not you)

I know three guys here who worked in local media/radio who all got laid off several years ago. A bloodletting the one guy called it. He ended up with a PR job. The other two went into retail/sales. The one just recently got back into radio after managing a chain convenience store; nothing wrong with that if that's what someone wants to do for a living but not his first choice by any stretch. He was lucky I guess that someone working in media who happened to know about the job opening, knew him and recommended him, so that he interviewed and got the job.

I wish you luck.

 

[imagemaker46]

I'd think about taking along 'tear sheets' such as they are today, and along with telling the guy, show him what you've done the past two seasons - slap it on his desk, put it in front of his face! lol (Bleed all over 'em, let 'em know you're there! - Slapshot)

May not do any good but I'd probably at least show them what I did, bunch o' lame ass $%!&$... lol geez that makes me mad reading this. Idiot. (him not you)

I know three guys here who worked in local media/radio who all got laid off several years ago. A bloodletting the one guy called it. He ended up with a PR job. The other two went into retail/sales. The one just recently got back into radio after managing a chain convenience store; nothing wrong with that if that's what someone wants to do for a living but not his first choice by any stretch. He was lucky I guess that someone working in media who happened to know about the job opening, knew him and recommended him, so that he interviewed and got the job.

I wish you luck.

Being as I am the one that has supplied the images for their web site in the past two years and work with both the social media and web guy, the entire team knows who I am and what I have been doing. I found it amazing that the VP of Communications doesn't go on face book, isn't part of any of the team's fan sites, uses twitter to talk about nothing, and really seems to serve no function. The players have no idea who he is as he never watches practice. He makes the decisions on his own. Last week he laid off one of the most respected media guys in the league, out of the blue he decided on a salary dump, and then advertised the next day for a new media guy. I've been through this kind of thing before and both times one person made the decisions and soon the teams folded as a result of mismanagement. His ego and lack of vision, will hopefully be his downfall.

 

[tirediron]

Being as I am the one that has supplied the images for their web site in the past two years and work with both the social media and web guy, the entire team knows who I am and what I have been doing. I found it amazing that the VP of Communications doesn't go on face book, isn't part of any of the team's fan sites, uses twitter to talk about nothing, and really seems to serve no function. The players have no idea who he is as he never watches practice. He makes the decisions on his own. Last week he laid off one of the most respected media guys in the league, out of the blue he decided on a salary dump, and then advertised the next day for a new media guy. I've been through this kind of thing before and both times one person made the decisions and soon the teams folded as a result of mismanagement. His ego and lack of vision, will hopefully be his downfall.

Sounds like someone with a [hopefully] short career ahead of him.

 

[unpopular]

Admitting that you're at a loss is self defeating.

We have this weird concept that you can just "little blue engine" through anything, all it takes it a positive attitude and you can achieve anything. All you need to do is blindly persevere confidently.

This might work for climbing a hill, but for many tasks acknowledging what you cannot currently do is an important step in understanding what you you need to do so that you can. No amount of positive self-talk will teach you new skills, and saying "I can do this" when in fact you can't will only lead to disastrous consequences.

The simple truth of the matter is that confidence isn't a shortcut.

 

[calamityjane]

If you're going to be a teacher, then you need to learn basic grammar. It's "from", not "off of".