Photos in an auditorium

[AKSnow]

Hello - Long time lurker, first time poster here.

I am trying to take better pictures of my wife's dance performances and am hoping for some helpful C&C. My initial attempts were very poor as all I had was the kit lens and 70-300. I purchased the 35mm 1.8 in hopes that my ISO could come down and shutter speed could go up. I want to take action shots, so a fast shutter is a must. As I am husband to a member, I can take shots from where ever I want.

I am still not very happy with the photos using the 35mm/1.8. Even when I drop the ISO to 800, the images still seem grainy. I tried using F/1.8 and ISO400, but my DOF was just too short.

Here is a recent example.

I'm not sure if the EXIF data will still be available, so here it is for this image:
35mm - ISO800
1/400s - F/2.8
0EV - Auto

I realize this photo is composed poorly. I am still trying to convert from a P&S'er to a photographer... For the moment I am more interested in improving the image quality (read clarity or sharpness). I have been using spot metering and spot auto-focusing because of the low light. The shots have all been hand-held as there is almost constant movement.

I would appreciate any comments on how to make these types of photos better. I am taking all my shots in RAW and trying to learn how to edit them, but it seems what I am starting with is too poor to make much better.

Thanks in advance.

 

[pbelarge]

You may want to try and get the shutter speed to at least 500. Have you tried to edit any of your shots? I believe LR would serve you well for the needs you are expressing.

 

[AKSnow]

Thanks Pierre, I have not tried a shutter speed over 400, so I will do that at next opportunity. I am guessing I will have to up the ISO to 1600 when I do that.

I'm in a small town area (real small) and there are no helpful camera or computer stores within 4 hours. By LR - you mean Light Room? I have tried editing using GIMP, but I have no experience with photo editing, so it has mostly been just figuring out what all the tools do.

 

[phiya]

Remember focal length and distance from the point of focus also affect Depth of Field. Because of this, a longer prime MAY serve you better. Say for example you are shooting from 10 ft away with the 35mm at F/1.8, your DOF is approximately 1.7ft deep (on a DX sensor). Now lets say you had access to a 85mm prime and could get the same shot (or close to it) from 30 feet away at F/1.8, now your depth of field is around 2.7ft, which is 58% more DOF. Now, that 85mm prime may be cost prohibitive, but you could go with a 50mm for around the same price as the 35mm and that may help a BIT. Also don't forget that you can maybe take a few steps back to gain some DOF, and then crop the image a bit and maintain your detail.

What's probably going to happen is you're going to have to experiment and find the balance of aperture and shutter speed that gets you the DOF and sharpness you need, and then let your ISO adjust to account for needing more light if necessary.

I hope this helps.

 

[phiya]

And PS - lightroom makes editing pretty simple for most things. Also, there are TONS of tutorials out there for photoshop and lightroom, check google and youtube.

 

[AKSnow]

Thanks for all the tips, I may have to make additional investments in hard and software.

I have taken much sharper images with the same camera, but they were all in daylight. I have been specifically asked to not use a flash, so I am stuck with whatever the stage lighting may be. Is the quality of the photo above close to what I should expect for low light conditions with my current gear, or am I way off?

 

[phiya]

I personally think you could lower the ISO and reduce the noise. I'm not sure you necessarily need 1/400th shutter speed all of the time. Dance moves aren't always high-speed in nature. It depends on the style of dance, but you could probably freeze some of the action at 1/250th or maybe even 1/200th

Trial and error is your best bet. Experiment at low ISO settings with shutter speed and aperture value to find your optimal settings. Only bump the ISO if you HAVE to, as that is what is contributing to your noise problem. Additionally noise can be reduced if not removed in post production. I don't think the picture you posted is unusable due to noise. It's not optimal, but certainly not horrible either.

 

[eliza18812]

its clear only

 

[KmH]

Here is a recent example.

I'm not sure if the EXIF data will still be available, so here it is for this image:
35mm - ISO800
1/400s - F/2.8
0EV - Auto

The photo is underexposed, very nearly 2 stops. Under exposure make noise more visible. Digital photos must be metered and exposed for the highlights. The concept is also known a ETTR - Expose To The Right. ETTR is critical to high ISO use. Expose Right

Another issue is going to be image scale in the frame. The 35 f/1.8 just isn't getting you close enough. If you crop that image you would be throwing away most of the pixels your D90 has (see below). Notice the crop I did is in the vertical orientation, not horizontal.

 

[AKSnow]

The photo is underexposed, very nearly 2 stops. Under exposure make noise more visible. Digital photos must be metered and exposed for the highlights. The concept is also known a ETTR - Expose To The Right. ETTR is critical to high ISO use. Expose Right

Another issue is going to be image scale in the frame. The 35 f/1.8 just isn't getting you close enough. If you crop that image you would be throwing away most of the pixels your D90 has (see below). Notice the crop I did is in the vertical orientation, not horizontal.

Thanks for the comments KmH. And that link was helpful, although I will definitely have to re-read it a few times.

The photo is underexposed, very nearly 2 stops.

If I understand this correctly - this would explain why almost all my histograms were all on the left half of the frame. I guess I don't really understand the proper way to meter. Could someone explain what process they would have used to take the example photo? I had the camera set to spot meter and focus, so I could 'aim' it at what I wanted to see.

The 35 f/1.8 just isn't getting you close enough.

I was placing myself farther away because some of the time there are 2-15 people on stage so I need the distance to get the FoV. I guess I can't do both with the same lens. I will try placing myself and the edge of the stage.

 

[KmH]

I guess I don't really understand the proper way to meter. Could someone explain what process they would have used to take the example photo? I had the camera set to spot meter and focus, so I could 'aim' it at what I wanted to see.

With the metering set to spot mode you meter a highlight in the scene. (A highlight is a bright spot, but it's not a small bright spot, which is called a specular highlight)
Your D90 meters a 3.5 mm circle (about 2.5% of the frame). That circle is centered on the selected focus point, so you can meter off-center subjects if you want. Page 80 (Metering) - D90 Users manual.

You need to be aware that of the 11 focus points you see in the viewfinder only the center focus point is a cross-type point. Cross-type focus points are more accurate than regular focus points. Autofocus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Cross-type (CT) focus points have a pair of sensors oriented at 90° to one another, although one sensor typically requires a larger aperture to operate than the other.

It wouldn't hurt to re-visit user manual pages 54-60 (Focus). Younot only need to select a focus mode, you also need to select a focus area mode.

For moving subjects you would want to use the AF-C focus mode and the Single focus area mode (not dynamic). I also set up my Nikon's so focus is done with the AE-L/AF-L (or AF-On) button on the back of the camera and not a half-press of the shutter. See page 200 of your D90 users manual (Assign AE-L/AF-L button).

The 35 f/1.8 just isn't getting you close enough.

I was placing myself farther away because some of the time there are 2-15 people on stage so I need the distance to get the FoV. I guess I can't do both with the same lens. I will try placing myself and the edge of the stage. [/QUOTE]No, you can't do both without moving around. To stay in one place you need a zoom lens like the intermediate AF NIKKOR 24-85mm f/2.8-4D IF ($690 new, $475 used) or the pro level AF-S NIKKOR 24-70mm f/2.8G ED ($1720 new, $1650 used).

 

[AKSnow]

Thanks again KmH. I read the Wiki article on auto-focusing last week, which prompted me to start using spot focusing to ensure the best possible autofocus in low light conditions. Thanks for your focus tips; I will certainly look over the manual again.

The exposure meter area is interesting info. When you say it is a 3.5mm circle - that is the area on the sensor, correct? So the farther your subject's distance, the larger area or light would be metered? Am I still confused?

I work good on examples. For the picture I posted - Where would you have metered prior to taking the shot?

I'm away from the camera for awhile, but I am curious about 'switching the focus buttons'. Does this mean that, if set to AF-C and using the AE-L/AF-L button (if set up properly), the AF will work when I have that button pressed? And in essence be AE/AF Locked when it is not pressed?