Please help! Dusk group shots

tmjjk · Oct 9, 2012

This weekend I will be photographing a company's business outing. They will be having a fall extravaganza. It is being held at a pumpkin farm in the late evening. I will have little daylight to work with. Please offer any advice on this. The gear I have is listed in my signature. I am wondering how harsh flash will be in this lighting? Diffuser? I am going to try to get out to shoot tonight to practice some in the evening light. Thanks!

pixmedic · Oct 9, 2012

get a good softbox for your flash. use your 50mm at f2.8 or f3.5 if you have some light left.

tmjjk · Oct 9, 2012

Thank you pixmedic

Vtec44 · Oct 9, 2012

It depends on the size of the group how you want to control the light, but a reflective umbrella may help spread the light wider.

MLeeK · Oct 9, 2012

Do you have off camera flash setup?
I'd actually want one more good flash unit as well to keep things evenly lit for groups. You can pick up a cheap flash gun of almost any sort for off camera for next to nothing. I have a whole box full of stuff I picked up for pennies. Can't use it on any camera I've ever owned, but it's some awesome cheap off camera flash!

Large umbrella or softbox on each, a flat ratio because it's a group and you want them evenly lit. One camera left and one camera right. If it's a HUGE group you may want a few more flashes, but I am assuming small groups of maybe 10 max.
I am not personally a fan of the reflective umbrellas because of the added contrast, add that to being dusk and that has the potential to be a lot of contrast. Then again if shot well, it could be fine, just not MY favorite way to go in this situation if you don't have the knowledge to make it turn out right.

Use a DOF calculator on your phone to make sure you are covered if you aren't all that hot at judging DOF yet. Or just stick around f/7.1 or better to be safe. If it's a huge group even higher.

I'd shoot from a tripod so you don't have to be behind the camera all of the time. That frees you up to see more-making sure no one is hiding their head behind another, etc.

I'd set up in your backyard or really anywhere that you can kind of simulate the situation and play with the light setup now so you have a good base when you get to that point.

tmjjk · Oct 9, 2012

I just checked tracking info and I should be receiving my bracket and cable today. I am extremely new to flash...and I really appreciate your help. I have a canon speedlite and I also have a cheap $60 dollar sunpak that I got from Walmart. DOF is a problem for me... so I do try to stick to f8, but I was worried about the low lighting. I am so stinking nervous about this... I have seen their previous business event images and I am certain they will not be terribly disappointed with my work... but I want to knock their socks off and make the images awesome. And right now I am worried about even properly exposing my subjects...eek! So... if I understand, I should mount my 430ex speedlite to the bracket... and how do I use the second flash? Or should they both be mounted? And I am not certain what flat ratio means... I am gonna go do a little more reading on this now... Thank you for your time MLeek.

MLeeK · Oct 9, 2012

No, not on a bracket. On stands to either side of you with a trigger/receiver set.
Honestly? I think my bracket gets used almost never. And when it does it's flipped so that the flash is put out to my side, not above. If it's a standard bracket that doesn't flip? Eh. It'll help getting it up off camera, but really all you are doing is raising the light up a bit. Might could work OK for this one if they are smaller, more intimate groups.
How large of groups are you talking about here?

tmjjk · Oct 9, 2012

This is what she sent me

It's a casual event with employees and a guest. There will be activities for them to enjoy- so I would someone to get some shots of people together as well as people enjoying the hayrides, pumpkin patch, ect. around 8:30pm/ or whenever the light inst too dark I will ask everyone to meet for a group picture. The pictures are to capture the engagement of employees and after the event I will post the group photo and the rest of the photos the employees may have/save for their enjoyment.

MLeeK · Oct 9, 2012

Uh, that sounds like one LARGE group photo. How many employees are to be attending?

tmjjk · Oct 9, 2012

Oh my goodness... she just replied with the amount..... 42 adults and 22 children... I may panic now and die of a heart attack! I am going to have to use my 18-55 for the group shot... and it's a crummy kit lens.

tmjjk · Oct 9, 2012

And I may need a semi to stand on....

MLeeK · Oct 9, 2012

The 18-55 isn't the best, but it's not all that bad either. You can do it.
Take a step ladder of some sort, Group them all in together and get above their eye level as much as you can with them looking up at you. It'll help to put them on a closer focal plane than looking through the stacks of people. You're going to need the most help with DOF you can get because you don't have the flash power you need. I'd use the flash on camera/bracket with the lightsphere to soften. f/11 if at all possible, shutter can be fairly slow to allow as much ambient light in as your flash is going to stop motion.

You know someone has to say it... This is why you should have your knowledge and equipment BEFORE you start taking paying gigs. You should have known what was expected of you before you took this gig and how to do it.
In reality? I'd want to have 4 to 6 speedlights off camera on this one and lens that is going to be super sharp in order to capture the best possible images of the faces. I'd go with a 17-50 or there about lens at about f/16 or even more depending. Probably not an option for you as you don't have the light power you are going to need in order to capture it. Without having multiple flashes to insure you stop motion 100% I'd be afraid of dropping your shutter too low which is why I said about f/11 in your case.

tmjjk · Oct 9, 2012

MLeeK said:
You know someone has to say it... This is why you should have your knowledge and equipment BEFORE you start taking paying gigs. You should have known what was expected of you before you took this gig and how to do it.
In reality? I'd want to have 4 to 6 speedlights off camera on this one and lens that is going to be super sharp in order to capture the best possible images of the faces. I'd go with a 17-50 or there about lens at about f/16 or even more depending. Probably not an option for you as you don't have the light power you are going to need in order to capture it. Without having multiple flashes to insure you stop motion 100% I'd be afraid of dropping your shutter too low which is why I said about f/11 in your case.

I know

... their regular photographer (whom I purchased my 50mm 1.4 from off craigslist) recommended me when she was unavailable for the event. She has been following my work and it just seemed like such an honor that I was recommended by another photog. I am an arse and should have politely declined... BUT my ego got in the way and now I want to do the best I can... and I thank you for helping me with what you can....

pixmedic · Oct 9, 2012

tmjjk said:
MLeeK said:

You know someone has to say it... This is why you should have your knowledge and equipment BEFORE you start taking paying gigs. You should have known what was expected of you before you took this gig and how to do it.
In reality? I'd want to have 4 to 6 speedlights off camera on this one and lens that is going to be super sharp in order to capture the best possible images of the faces. I'd go with a 17-50 or there about lens at about f/16 or even more depending. Probably not an option for you as you don't have the light power you are going to need in order to capture it. Without having multiple flashes to insure you stop motion 100% I'd be afraid of dropping your shutter too low which is why I said about f/11 in your case.

Click to expand...

I know ... their regular photographer (whom I purchased my 50mm 1.4 from off craigslist) recommended me when she was unavailable for the event. She has been following my work and it just seemed like such an honor that I was recommended by another photog. I am an arse and should have politely declined... BUT my ego got in the way and now I want to do the best I can... and I thank you for helping me with what you can....

Regardless of being an honor or not...don't let your ego get in the way of clients getting quality work and a quality product. They deserve no less.
for this one though, Do the best you can with what you have, and hope for good weather conditions. Mleek often offers advice to people on this forum, and while not everyone takes her advice...everyone SHOULD. It is usually spot on.

MLeeK · Oct 9, 2012

tmjjk said:
MLeeK said:

You know someone has to say it... This is why you should have your knowledge and equipment BEFORE you start taking paying gigs. You should have known what was expected of you before you took this gig and how to do it.
In reality? I'd want to have 4 to 6 speedlights off camera on this one and lens that is going to be super sharp in order to capture the best possible images of the faces. I'd go with a 17-50 or there about lens at about f/16 or even more depending. Probably not an option for you as you don't have the light power you are going to need in order to capture it. Without having multiple flashes to insure you stop motion 100% I'd be afraid of dropping your shutter too low which is why I said about f/11 in your case.

Click to expand...

I know ... their regular photographer (whom I purchased my 50mm 1.4 from off craigslist) recommended me when she was unavailable for the event. She has been following my work and it just seemed like such an honor that I was recommended by another photog. I am an arse and should have politely declined... BUT my ego got in the way and now I want to do the best I can... and I thank you for helping me with what you can....