Please help me find the right MF setup!

jakeg1999 · Nov 25, 2013

Hello all, I am not new to the hobby but I am new to MF. I have a pretty good foundation of photography, but of course I am just at the tip of the iceberg. I am a digital user for hobby and side work. When I shoot for myself, it's with my 3-35mm film bodies. I really enjoy film, and have a ton to learn. As of right now, I am pretty confident that the Mamiya RZ67.... is a good starting point for me. Here is what I am looking for: reliability, good history, long lasting, good quality, well functioning, and cosmetics and looks don't bother me. Most of my work these days is of portraiture/people. I rarely do landscape, but I love landscape, so I would like to be able to do both. My favorite 35mm focal length is 35mm and 85mm, and I love a shallow depth of field so the faster the better. I have not really played around much with a separate light meter but am not opposed to the option. I would prefer a built in, but it's not a deal breaker. I don't need a bunch of bells and whistles. I am intrigued by the idea of being able to rotate the back of the RZ67, and using polaroid as well. I don't mind things being manual, and am not bothered by weight. I prefer quality over a bargain, and would love to get something that will basically last me forever as I plan to take good care of it. I have been checking them out on Ebay and KEH and would like to get some sort of a package deal if possible. I am not really interested in a digital back as I have 3 dslr's that I am quite happy with. So, should I be looking for an RB67, RZ67, or RZ67 Pro ii? I am not made of money but will try to come up with it if I feel like I might regret it in the future. At this point I am thinking I will only need/use 2 lenses both comparable to a 35mm and 85mm. I'd rather not sink big money into this but we all know how that goes.....any advice, thoughts, opinions, or questions would be helpful. Right now I am leaning towards figuring out what will work for me and then trying to place an order through KEH......

Thanks.....Jake

trythis · Nov 25, 2013

This would be a lot easier if you gave us a rough budget. If its $200 thats one thing, youll be in the all manual 645 using you dslr as a meter. If you have $803.15, there is a lot more to work with and suggestions will range quite a bit.

Are you sold on 6x7? All you mention is Mamiya 67s

jakeg1999 · Nov 25, 2013

I am not sold on anything really, I have just heard nothing but good things about the Mamiya. As for a budget $500 would be great, but I'd like to stay around or under 1K if possible, however if going over that will make a huge difference as far as quality output then I will try to make that work. I am very aware that it's more the artist than the equipment, but I am a believer in decent equipment. I am also not stuck on 6x7 either. I would like something I can carry around without the need of a tripod and a hotshoe is a big plus if it will work with my pocket wizard tt5's. I can be quite flexible.....

compur · Nov 25, 2013

You mentioned you wanted "good handling." Have you ever handled an RB or RZ? If not, I would do so before buying one. Many find the size and weight of these cameras to be excessive and awkward. They're fine on a sturdy tripod but hand holding them is not easy.

Derrel · Nov 25, 2013

If you want *handles like a big turd made of metal*, then you want a Mamiya RB or RZ. If you want a great-handling 120 rollfilm SLR,then you want a Bronica SQ-series or a Bronica GS-1. Seriously...the RB and RZ are so poorly designed for non-tripiod use it's not even funny! THe SQ-series cameras are more plentiful, and lenses cost a bit less than lenses for the GS-1.

jakeg1999 · Nov 25, 2013

I have not handled one, nor any other MF setup. I am completely open to different options.

jakeg1999 · Nov 25, 2013

I'll take flexibility over weight. I am used to carrying a heavy setup. Quality/flexibility is more important to me than weight.

Derrel · Nov 25, 2013

The RB and RZ are, I would say, two of the least practical medium format cameras that were made for hand-holding or for "fluid" shooting. They were designed almost without a doubt exclusively for tripod-mounted shooting. The difference between an RB 67 or an RZ 67 and a Bronica or Hasselblad 500 series is that the Mamiyas are HUGE, heavy, awkward, and clunky. It's difficult to put into words. I worked at a Seattle area studio, and we used RB 67 cameras. OMG...the things are tanks. I dunno...using a tripod with a medium format camera is an accepted norm, but with the other brands and models, it's fairly EASY to shoot hand-held when conditions allow it, but with the RB and RZ, it's just so large and heavy and awkward...the things are as I said, turds.

One of the reasons 120 TLRs were popular is that they gave users 120 rollfilm and a normal lens from a camera that was basically, designed to be shot, and carried, and used as a HAND-held camera. The Mamiyas under discussion were designed for camera stand and tripod use, and there was basically zero, as in Zero, design concerns for lighter weight or portability or hand-operation ergonomics. WHich is almost the exact, polar opposite of the Hasselblad and the later Japanese-Hassy-replacement, the Bronica SQ.

jakeg1999 · Nov 25, 2013

Thanks Derrel for the feedback. I will have to look into the Bronica's. A couple of basic questions, is shooting portrait fairly simple? (I like that you can rotate the back on the Mamiya). Does it come with or can I get a built in light meter? Is there a decent lens selection, ie. can I find something similar to a 35mm and 85mm in 35mm format? Is a polaroid back an option? Are there any advantages of the Mamiya over the Bronica at all? One last thing, can I use it with my pocket wizards like the RZ67?

Derrel · Nov 25, 2013

Shooting "portrait" is not an issue at all with the 6x6 cameras. On the SQ-Ai, I use a 645 format back if I want to shoot a lot of "talls" and change my lens angle of view and focal lengths. Otherwise, the images are squares, and cropping is done later. The GS-1 does NOT have a revolving back. Here's a good example of what a nice GS-1 outfit might be like BRONICA GS-1 KIT- CLOSET CLEANING- HUGE PACKAGE FOR $1200 [Archive] - APUG

There were Polaroid backs for basically all magazine-stlye 120 systems, but I have no idea of what the availability of film is. I have a Polaroid back for my SQ-A bodies, but have not shot any Polaroid thru the back in 15+ years.

Medium format film is large enough that the difference between a 6x7 neg and a 6x6 neg cropped to make a portrait offered not much gain in anything for the 6x7, just greater film consumption. San Diego is a big town--maybe there's still a good camera shop there that would have some 120 cameras in inventory in the used department, and you could check a few out. There USED TO be a great store, Dell's, in S.D.. Probably gone now.

jakeg1999 · Nov 25, 2013

There are a couple good shops in town. Dell's doesn't ring a bell, but due to my schedule it's hard for me to get out and see what the stores have. I still might try though, although I prefer to just ask lots of questions and do online research and purchases. Polaroids are actually not that big of a deal for me. I guess what I am looking for is reliability, quality, ability to shoot handheld somewhat comfortably, ability to work with my pocket wizards if possible, and also built in light meter although again not a deal breaker. I plan to mainly use it as my personal/fun camera with hopes of possibly working it into some of my paid shoots. Being able to find replacement parts/accessories fairly easily is also a major plus.

Propsguy · Nov 25, 2013

I second Derrel's comments completely. The Mamiyas are so cumbersome and awkward to use it's hard to understand how they gained any popularity. I also agree with the Bronica suggestion, but my first choice would be hasselblad.... I sold mine about 8 years ago and have always regretted it.

jakeg1999 · Nov 25, 2013

First off, thanks so much for all your help.....So far everything I read is that the Mamiyas are cumbersome and heavy which is more of a mild turnoff for me. I do like that they have rotating backs and components are readily available. So, what does the Bronica have/do over the Mamiya, weight aside? I think at this point I am more interested in the 6x7 format. Which Bronica should I be considering in regards to the Mamiya RZ67 pro ii?

Derrel · Nov 25, 2013

Bronica used metering prisms that contained the light meter. The metering prism I have also brings half-speed shutter speeds when it is used. I have not tried using Pocket Wizards with it, since when I was using it I shot ALL of my studio flash with a PC synch cord, and shot my on-camera flash using a PC cord connected flash on a bracket, but since I have a hot shoe AND a PC outlet, I am gonna say the Pocket Wizards will work. One thing you will often hear parrotted on the internet is that Bronicas were "unreliable"; not my experience with the SQ-series at all, but more of a holdover from the 1960's era ZENZA-Bronica cameras, the earliest of which were kind of junky.

Bronica SQ, and SQ-A and SQ-Ai were basically the same body, with increasing amounts of electronics over about a decade of manufacture. The BASIC body is low cost. Then you need to add a back, and a viewing finder of one type of another; and finally, a lens. The lenses Bronica made had lovely bokeh for the most part, something Hassy's Zeiss lenses did not have. Hassy built TIGHT-tolerance bodies and backs that needed CLA's to maintain good function, in the European tradition of Leica. Bronica built in the much newer Japanese style with looser body tolerances on mechanical parts, with self-lubriacting parts, and non-binding or low-friction parts interface a s way to avoid the need for annual CLA's at $100 a pop to keep the thing working "right". Bronica had very good, ACCURATE Seiko-timed shutters in each lens, which boosts accuracy and eliminates the hassles of mechanical gear trains getting gummy with age. In essence, Hassy layed down its engineering ideas in the late 1940's, while Bronica layed down its SQ ideas in the mid-1970's. Bronica looked at the Hassy 500 series as the basic idea, but strived to make it more-modern and more-reliable and simpler, less mechanically complicated, for example getting rid of the Hassy's shutter cocking/film winding interlock concept that could jam up the camera if the lens were removed in the wrong "order".

Hassy represents the classic "old-world", pre-WW II, European designed, complex mechanical device that LEICA exemplified, versus Bronica's modern, post WW II Japanese camera ethos that NIKON exemplified; simplified, with self-lubricating parts and designed so that it does NOT need to be serviced just to maintain functionality.