Please help me find the right MF setup!

[jakeg1999]

I have basically been comparing the Pentax 67, Bronica GS-1, and Mamiya Rz67. There's something drawing me to the Mamiya for some reason. I think because its popularity and availability, coupled with the rotating back and hot shoe capability. Prices seem to be fairly close for basic package deals on eBay and keh. I like that I've read more than once the Pentax has great bokeh as I have a serious soft spot for it. I also really like the idea of being able to swap out backs mid roll although not a deal breaker. Man this is a tough one.......

 

[tirediron]

If you want the rotating back feature, you'll need the RB67.

 

[compur]

Just because a camera doesn't have a rotating back doesn't mean you can't use it to shoot either portrait or landscape format. If the back doesn't rotate you just rotate the whole camera, an easy thing to do with a sturdy tripod. I do this with my Pentax 67 and it's also hand hold-able when I so desire, especially when using the smaller lenses like the 90mm. It doesn't have removable backs but then it also doesn't have the bulk and weight of removable backs.

 

[Derrel]

I have basically been comparing the Pentax 67, Bronica GS-1, and Mamiya Rz67. There's something drawing me to the Mamiya for some reason. I think because its popularity and availability, coupled with the rotating back and hot shoe capability. Prices seem to be fairly close for basic package deals on eBay and keh. I like that I've read more than once the Pentax has great bokeh as I have a serious soft spot for it. I also really like the idea of being able to swap out backs mid roll although not a deal breaker. Man this is a tough one.......

I'll tell you what...it's a "tough one" right until you pick up a Pentax 67 or a Bronica GS-1 or SQ-Ai and then an RB or RZ and handle them, and hold them, and shoot one roll of 120 hand-held...and it's then that you realize why there are sooooooooooooo many RB and RZ 67s on the used market. Simply an awful design. Pathetic ergonomics on the Mamiyas. Wayyyyy too heavy and awkward for hand-held use for more than just a few minutes. Think, "International-Harvester hay baler."

The Pentax 67 or the Bronica 6x6 or the multi-format GS-1 (6x7, 6x6, 645,35mm) or the Hasselblad 500 series, ALL of those cameras are a joy to hold and handle and shoot, hand-held. If you MUST have a revolving back, well, then there's the answer. Buy a big tank-like, clunky monstrosity, and you get a rotating back and a bellows and gigantic lenses. I know this is a web forum, and it's difficult to convey anything about ergonomics, but the way the RB and RZ handle, in my own experience, is like big, metal turds. I've only shot a few rolls thru the 67 Pentax, and it handles like a big 35mm SLR. I've shot a ton with the SQ-series cameras, and they handle fabulously. I worked with the Mamiya RB67s at one studio and loathed them....just sucky, clunky, awful contraptions. But hey--rotating back!!!

 

[timor]

And there is always Bronica ETR.

 

[jakeg1999]

Ok, so as much as I'd love a rotating back its not a deal breaker for me. I found a pretty good deal on our local Craig's list for a GS-1 package and I'm just waiting to hear back from the guy. Somehow I have this strange feeling this might not be my last MF platform. Really it sounds like any of the three will fit the bill just fine for me. So I think I will just look for one that comes across as the best deal financially which I'm hoping this GS-1 pans out. I just realized the gs-1 does a couple different formats which is really cool. I wonder if I could get my pocket wizards to work with it, which is another benefit of the rz for me.

 

[Derrel]

I remembered this guy's site from the EARLY days on the internet! Robert Monaghan's site! It used to be the go-to site, back in the ugly, plain-text kind of ASCII days, with loads of Q&A, camera profiles, and so on. I have not looked thru his links, but this *might* still be worthwhile as a source of information on various MF cameras and systems and their lenses and accessories.

Tips on Picking A Medium Format Camera by Robert Monaghan

 

[jakeg1999]

Thanks again Derrel I'll check it out....

 

[gsgary]

The one i want next is the Mamiya 7 takes some of the best lenses you will ever use, or you could step it up to the next notch and look at a Contax 645

 

[cgw]

I have basically been comparing the Pentax 67, Bronica GS-1, and Mamiya Rz67. There's something drawing me to the Mamiya for some reason. I think because its popularity and availability, coupled with the rotating back and hot shoe capability. Prices seem to be fairly close for basic package deals on eBay and keh. I like that I've read more than once the Pentax has great bokeh as I have a serious soft spot for it. I also really like the idea of being able to swap out backs mid roll although not a deal breaker. Man this is a tough one.......

For starters, the size/weight/ergonomics issues with the RB67 as spilled here, and elsewhere, are exaggerated. Your interests--portraits and landscapes--are typically shot on a tripod. The RB67 isn't petite: it weighs in at around 5.5lbs with a 90/3.8+WLF+back. For comparison's sake, a Nikon F3HP+MD-4+85/1.8NAI is only a pound lighter. On a tripod--which BTW doesn't have to be girder-like--the RB is very straightforward:aperture and shutter speed are set on the lens; shutter cocking/film advance are separate but become habit; bellows focusing allows for close-ups without tubes or diopters; the huge focus screen is bright and plasma-like with the WLF and its magnifier; and yes, the rotating back is the killer feature, since the camera body isn't flipped(a problem with the big Pentax 6x7)for portrait orientation. The RB doesn't have a hot shoe; instead, flash works via a PC connection on the lens. I shoot mine on the street, at cars shows, and at events on a tripod that I carry. An extra back in a coat pocket and some film and I'm good. It's a superb studio camera. The are several sellers on eBay offering NOS RB67 ProSD kits now.

Bronica 6x6 cameras have only recently come down in price. I have an SQ-B kit with a few lenses, a 45 degree prism finder+WLF and a speed winder. It's 2lbs lighter than the RB67 Pro S kit I shoot. It's easily shot off a tripod but I often use a monopod on the street. It's probably the newest, most affordable 6x6 SLR around. The GS-1 isn't much bigger than the SQ. It wasn't a huge seller and tends to be pricey

Generally, I'd advise buying the newest gear you can afford. Repair resources aren't as accessible today simply for lack of demand, so the healing powers of the CLA that many of the oldies need(if not extensive repair)just aren't on every corner--or cheap.

Metered prisms for MF aren't that accurate. A handheld meter that can read incident+flash+spot will save $ because it can deliver accurate exposures. The DSLR-as-meter method is awkward and not always consistent.

 

[amolitor]

You're probably not shooting portraits with the 90 on the RB67. Just sayin.

There are a few heros who have used RB/RZ handheld, but in real usage the ergonomics are in fact just as bad as have been suggested. Weight isn't actually the problem, it's the distribution of the weight and the complete lack of anything to hang on to.

 

[amolitor]

Obviously you can handhold anything, if you're creative. Here's how I use the Sinar handheld (I wrote this on another forum, but it's worth repeating):

Assuming you're right handed (reverse all hands of course if you're a southpaw):

Holding the rail in your left hand (no tripod, obviously) you suspend the camera UNDER the rail to focus. This inverts the image, of course, so now it's right side up which is what you want to compose for "street". Focus, which should already be close since you're zone focusing, with your right hand.

Now, flip the camera right-side up with your left as you pull a film holder from your holster using your right hand. This re-inverts the image of course, which is correct for shooting. Jam the film holder in with the right hand.

Now it gets tricky. Toss the camera straight up. With your left hand close the shutter as the camera RISES and find the darkslide with your right hand. As the camera descends you're going to pull the dark slide (right hand) and cock the shutter (left hand).

Place your left under the rail to slow and stop the camera and -- just as it comes to rest but before it starts to fall sideways, slide your right hand forward to touch the shutter release.

The left hand curls around the focusing rail, grasping it as the camera falls sideways, and returns to the position hanging underneath the focusing rail.

You get the hang of it pretty fast.

 

[cgw]

You're probably not shooting portraits with the 90 on the RB67. Just sayin

Use a KL150 and KL180 along with the 90C. Do you own and shoot an RB67, bro?

 

[jakeg1999]

Well, looks like I will be getting that Bronica GS-1 tomorrow! Thanks for all the advice! Somehow I have this strange feeling this won't be my last MF setup.

 

[cgw]

Well, looks like I will be getting that Bronica GS-1 tomorrow! Thanks for all the advice! Somehow I have this strange feeling this won't be my last MF setup.

Sweet! I started with 645, went to 6x6 and added a 6x7. Hopeless...

If one isn't included, a manual can easily be grabbed online. Check the condition of the light seals on your back(s). The hinge area seals usually go first and can cause the most trouble. Simply shooting a roll, preferably outside, is the easiest way to check for leaks. It's a DIY fix.

Bronica GS-1 instruction manual, user manual, PDF manual, free manuals

Love the rotary finders for these--almost as nice as the Mamiya rotating backs.