Price of petrol/gas

[AlanKlein80 19]

We live in a rural mountainous area, and bought a Prius in 2016. 58 to 65 mpg as opposed to Silverado 2500 at 9-11. I'd call that advantage Prius.

Well, unless you need the carrying or towing capacity of the Silverado.

 

[AlanKlein80 19]

My CRV gets good mileage my GMC Sierra is a bit more expensive to run.
But with the price of gas my KLR650 will get a lot more use this summer.
At better than 56 miles per gallon around town plus the fun factor.

Until it rains.

 

[smoke665]

We live in a rural mountainous area, and bought a Prius in 2016. 58 to 65 mpg as opposed to Silverado 2500 at 9-11. I'd call that advantage Prius.

The problem with advantages are the disadvantages, they all come with a price. The materials used in the EV batteries come from less than environmentally friendly mining,, and the disposal of the old ones is a building time bomb of hazardous waste. While Toyota is claiming a lifespan of 12 yrs on the batterry, I've heard real life users getting significantly less "actual" use. As the batterry ages it provides less juice, requiring the gas engine to work more, and the cost of batterry replacement becomes more than the value of the car. Unlike your old Silverado, I doubt you'll see many Prius with 200k+ miles still going.

Don't get me wrong, I think the hybrid solution is a whole lot better one than the 100% EV with all its baggage, but it still has a ways to go. We are not European countries where you can drive from one country to another in the time it takes us to drive across one state. The EV with its 200-300 mile range and extended recharging times, is a joke for someone who would think nothing of driving 600 miles in a day, or towing/hauling more than a bag of groceries.

@AlanKlein I rode and even raced motorcross in my younger days. At 62 I was determined I was getting a Harley, but the DW was fighting me on it tooth and nail. One bright Sunday morning I was toned out on a motorcycle wreck. I was first on the scene to find a man exactly my age, had laid his Harley over to avoid a car that pulled out in front of him. In the process he'd slid a couple of hundred feet down the asphalt. His helmet had protected his head but the rest of him was one big mess of road rash. 10 years later, I still don't have the Harley........but my skin is intact. LOL

 

[AlanKlein80 19]

The problem with advantages are the disadvantages, they all come with a price. The materials used in the EV batteries come from less than environmentally friendly mining,, and the disposal of the old ones is a building time bomb of hazardous waste. While Toyota is claiming a lifespan of 12 yrs on the batterry, I've heard real life users getting significantly less "actual" use. As the batterry ages it provides less juice, requiring the gas engine to work more, and the cost of batterry replacement becomes more than the value of the car. Unlike your old Silverado, I doubt you'll see many Prius with 200k+ miles still going.

Don't get me wrong, I think the hybrid solution is a whole lot better one than the 100% EV with all its baggage, but it still has a ways to go. We are not European countries where you can drive from one country to another in the time it takes us to drive across one state. The EV with its 200-300 mile range and extended recharging times, is a joke for someone who would think nothing of driving 600 miles in a day, or towing/hauling more than a bag of groceries.

The price for Ev isn't also just the price. You get less in features with an Ev for a comparably priced gasoline-powered car. The extra money for the batteries means less features like leather seats, better sound systems, tires, etc. that you would get with the gas car at the same purchase price. When I look at a $35,000 Tesla, they look like a Toyota Carolla at half the cost to buy. So while you're saving on gas expenses, you're paying more initially for a less loaded auto. And that's not even considering the rebate you get that other taxpayers are paying for.

 

[TJMcG113 1]

The problem with advantages are the disadvantages, they all come with a price.

Everything comes with a price. The question is: Which is the better value?

The materials used in the EV batteries come from less than environmentally friendly mining,, and the disposal of the old ones is a building time bomb of hazardous waste.

Fracking, where a great deal of our oil in the U.S. comes from, is no less unfriendly. Nuclear plants and waste may be the most hazardous there is, but there are those still touting nuclear as the best way to produce power.

While Toyota is claiming a lifespan of 12 yrs on the batterry, I've heard real life users getting significantly less "actual" use. As the batterry ages it provides less juice, requiring the gas engine to work more, and the cost of batterry replacement becomes more than the value of the car. Unlike your old Silverado, I doubt you'll see many Prius with 200k+ miles still going.

I have a niece who had battery failure in her Prius at about 225K. Toyota doesn't recommend it of course, but you can replace bad cells as they fail, as opposed to the whole thing. I have never personally driven any car that many miles, but if you drive a lot more than we do, I imagine that you would expect failure sooner. As for the replacement cost being more than the value of the car, I guess that depends on what a replacement car would cost and what the condition of the rest of the car is. We drove an '89 Honda Civic for 27 years and it was in pretty bad shape, but still had less than 200,000 miles.

Don't get me wrong, I think the hybrid solution is a whole lot better one than the 100% EV with all its baggage, but it still has a ways to go. We are not European countries where you can drive from one country to another in the time it takes us to drive across one state. The EV with its 200-300 mile range and extended recharging times, is a joke for someone who would think nothing of driving 600 miles in a day, or towing/hauling more than a bag of groceries.

That's why we have trucks. The Prius won't do everything we need to do at this point, and why we have a Prius instead of an EV is because of the range. But this is what there is now, and at my age, this is most likely what I will have until I'm gone. Rest assured however, that some day there will be no more gasoline vehicles outside of museums. Fighting to keep antiquated systems going instead of putting everything we have into better technology is a losing battle, just as opposing the original cars in favor of horses was destined to fail.

 

[TJMcG113 1]

Well, unless you need the carrying or towing capacity of the Silverado.

Which we sometimes do, and that is why we have it. It doesn't have to be our daily driver, however, since trips to the store or day trips to the Grand Canyon don't don't require 400 horsepower. Once, when car shopping in our Honda Civic, the salesman laughed and pointed to the trailer hitch. He had never seen a Civic with a trailer hitch. I installed that to pull a small utility trailer to the dump when necessary and it worked just fine, but not for a fifth wheel RV...

 

[AlanKlein80 19]

Everything comes with a price. The question is: Which is the better value?

Fracking, where a great deal of our oil in the U.S. comes from, is no less unfriendly. Nuclear plants and waste may be the most hazardous there is, but there are those still touting nuclear as the best way to produce power.

I have a niece who had battery failure in her Prius at about 225K. Toyota doesn't recommend it of course, but you can replace bad cells as they fail, as opposed to the whole thing. I have never personally driven any car that many miles, but if you drive a lot more than we do, I imagine that you would expect failure sooner. As for the replacement cost being more than the value of the car, I guess that depends on what a replacement car would cost and what the condition of the rest of the car is. We drove an '89 Honda Civic for 27 years and it was in pretty bad shape, but still had less than 200,000 miles.

That's why we have trucks. The Prius won't do everything we need to do at this point, and why we have a Prius instead of an EV is because of the range. But this is what there is now, and at my age, this is most likely what I will have until I'm gone. Rest assured however, that some day there will be no more gasoline vehicles outside of museums. Fighting to keep antiquated systems going instead of putting everything we have into better technology is a losing battle, just as opposing the original cars in favor of horses was destined to fail.

Yes but back then the free market and private investment determined our movement into automobiles from horses. Today, governments decide using taxpayer money.

 

[TJMcG113 1]

Yes but back then the free market and private investment determined our movement into automobiles from horses. Today, governments decide using taxpayer money.

Yeah, I won't be getting into that debate...

 

[webestang6411]

 

[smoke665]

Everything comes with a price. The question is: Which is the better value?

I think I mentioned we gave serious consideration to the hybrid version when we replaced her car. For us the better value was NOT the hybrid.

have a niece who had battery failure in her Prius at about 225K. T

I also know an older fellow who drove a Prius as his daily commuter, who also racked up 200k +, with no battery change. His comment (Not mine), was as the car aged, the fuel mileage decreased, as the battery contributed less and less.

Fighting to keep antiquated systems going instead of putting everything we have into better technology is a losing battle, just as opposing the original cars in favor of horses was destined to fail.

Yes but will your Prius come when you call it, or nuzzle you because they're happy to see you. All things change, but sometimes change just for the sake of change isn't the best option. I have a 1987 Suzuki Samurai, that we bought new, probably has over 200k on, it's so fun to drive that we couldn't get rid of it. It still gets 25 mpg on the highway, so why 35 years later are the current 4cyl gasoline engines not getting 3x's better all on their own?

 

[ac12]

The other day, I saw the price at a Chevron station, all three grades were over $6 a gallon
Guess I'm goina be driving less, and staying home more.

 

[reyshm]

Almost 90% of the People where I work want to continue working from home. With these fuel prices, it's obvious why.

Precisely!

 

[cdd29]

a horse is the only way to go. wait.,.. they need fed and poop. never mind.

 

[petrochemist115 140]

One of my cars takes super (93 octane) so it costs an additional 50 cents or so here in NJ over regular octane. Brings price up to around US$4.75 per gallon. Add higher costs for film and photography is getting more expensive.

Doesn't sound very super.
Normal unleaded in Europe is 95 octane.
The racing fuel I test for work is 101 octane and sold last year for a little over £3 a litre...

Normal diesel here is now around £7.7 a gallon, that's currently $10!

 

[smoke665]

a horse is the only way to go. wait.,.. they need fed and poop. never mind.

I can raise my own feed, and the byproducts........best fertilizer there is.

@petrochemist "Normal diesel here is now around £7.7 a gallon, that's currently $10!"........that's crazy. At that rate I'd definitely be squeezing my own bio.


As a side note: my first year of college 1968, gas was $.25/gal at the ripoff places on the interstate $.199 -.22 At the local stations, and they pumped it, cleaned your windshield, checked your oil, and few even checked your air pressures.