Pricing for production cost vs personal value.

[fooby]

I was wondering how you guys would go about charging for your own equipment? Do you charge the client a sort of "rental" charge for each piece of gear you use, or do you just take this out of your personal cost and only charge for production costs specific to the shoot? Surely it makes no sense to add rental costs for gear specific to a certain shoot as against taking it out of your personal value because you have invested in said piece of equipment for your business.

This is just one question of many from a photographer looking to get into the world of commercial photography. At the moment, I'm just putting all of my time and money into investing in myself and building a great portfolio. For now I'll either work for free for clients that are also just starting out, or full price. I don't want to go somewhere in between and devalue myself or other local photographers.

The joys of working out business!

 

[Steve5D]

Oh, this should be interesting...

 

[Overread]

Oh, this should be interesting...

Top line above a first post in a thread there is a control bar.

Go along to "Thread Tool"

In the drop down menu select the "Subscribe to this Thread" option

Fill in the details of the type of subscription you want and hey presto its done. You can stalk the thread all you want without having to add any posts.

 

[fooby]

Oh, this should be interesting...

Hopefully in a good way!

 

[pixmedic]

I will remind everyone that "the aspiring professionals forum" was created specifically for people new to the business aspect of photography looking for non judgmental answers, and the normal "telling it like it is" or "I'm just being honest" excuses for hazing will not fly here.

While it may often fly in the other forum areas, Harsh penalties will be issued to anyone not playing nice here.

Carry on.

 

[KmH]

Yes. For commercial shoots I added a line item rental charge to cover wear and tear on my equipment.

For retail shoots my cost-of-doing-business (CODB) figure included an amount for equipment wear and tear.

 

[Light Guru]

I was wondering how you guys would go about charging for your own equipment? Do you charge the client a sort of "rental" charge for each piece of gear you use, or do you just take this out of your personal cost and only charge for production costs specific to the shoot? Surely it makes no sense to add rental costs for gear specific to a certain shoot as against taking it out of your personal value because you have invested in said piece of equipment for your business.

This is just one question of many from a photographer looking to get into the world of commercial photography. At the moment, I'm just putting all of my time and money into investing in myself and building a great portfolio. For now I'll either work for free for clients that are also just starting out, or full price. I don't want to go somewhere in between and devalue myself or other local photographers.

The joys of working out business!

Well if you are actually renting gear then yes you should simply pass that cost on.

You are only asking a part of a bigger question. Equipment upkeep, future equipment, future software upgreads and taxes are all part of the cost of doing business.

Use a Cost of Doing Business Calculates like this to help you figure it all out.
https://nppa.org/page/3275

 

[fooby]

I was wondering how you guys would go about charging for your own equipment? Do you charge the client a sort of "rental" charge for each piece of gear you use, or do you just take this out of your personal cost and only charge for production costs specific to the shoot? Surely it makes no sense to add rental costs for gear specific to a certain shoot as against taking it out of your personal value because you have invested in said piece of equipment for your business.

This is just one question of many from a photographer looking to get into the world of commercial photography. At the moment, I'm just putting all of my time and money into investing in myself and building a great portfolio. For now I'll either work for free for clients that are also just starting out, or full price. I don't want to go somewhere in between and devalue myself or other local photographers.

The joys of working out business!

Well if you are actually renting gear then yes you should simply pass that cost on.

You are only asking a part of a bigger question. Equipment upkeep, future equipment, future software upgreads and taxes are all part of the cost of doing business.

Use a Cost of Doing Business Calculates like this to help you figure it all out.
https://nppa.org/page/3275

Thank you, what I'm a little confused about is where the line is drawn between rental and purchased equipment. As somebody who isn't yet making enough to invest in much expensive equipment, should I charge the same for a rental as I should for my own gear, or simply charge for the rentals and take my own equipment into account for my CODB? For example would I charge the same amount per day for my 6D as a rental company would?

 

[TreeofLifeStairs]

I would always charge more. Let them do their own footwork if they want a better deal.

 

[Overread]

A rental company already has its insurance, cost of doing business profit and other costs all rolled into its rental price (and factoring in the value of the item being rented out as well). Whilst you should certainly have a value annually as to how much insurance, equipment maintenance and upgrade/replacement will likely cost that should be factored into your overall running costs and then broken down into each "client" based on your estimated hours working for the year.

So the client is paying for your equipment, but its just a part of your general costs of doing business; furthermore the client isn't specifically renting your equipment for the shoot as such; they are hiring your whole package as a photographer.

The only time you should really consider charging a full rental cost is if the client requires something out of your normal line of work that requires you to rent equipment to cover that need.

 

[Overread]

I would always charge more. Let them do their own footwork if they want a better deal.

Charging more or less requires one to at least have a good understanding of the actual value of their time and equipment - you need to know where that point is so that you can ensure that you're at least equal (ticking over) and ideally beating that value - and you know when a client keeps lowballing way under it that you're best to drop that client (unless you want to give them a gift of your time and efforts of course).

 

[fooby]

A rental company already has its insurance, cost of doing business profit and other costs all rolled into its rental price (and factoring in the value of the item being rented out as well). Whilst you should certainly have a value annually as to how much insurance, equipment maintenance and upgrade/replacement will likely cost that should be factored into your overall running costs and then broken down into each "client" based on your estimated hours working for the year.

So the client is paying for your equipment, but its just a part of your general costs of doing business; furthermore the client isn't specifically renting your equipment for the shoot as such; they are hiring your whole package as a photographer.

The only time you should really consider charging a full rental cost is if the client requires something out of your normal line of work that requires you to rent equipment to cover that need.

Thank you, very helpful response! So for rentals such as additional strobes / studio space if required should be part of my cost of business (even if I have to rent them to begin with), whilst specialist equipment specific to that particular shoot should be charged as a production cost?

 

[Overread]

Anything regular that you have to pay out is basically your cost of doing business - its the amount you have to pay to function to deliver your advertised product/service. The key there is that it means that something like a studio space instead of coming out of each clients pocket direct, instead comes out of every client that hires you for a month - that way it helps keep your costs down (I'm not saying undercharge, but you need to have a competitive rate).

And yes anything ontop of that that you have to hire in should be a specialist charge because its requiring a one-time increase to your cost of doing business, so that cost has to be covered by the client (again unless you have reason to discount for the client).

 

[fooby]

Anything regular that you have to pay out is basically your cost of doing business - its the amount you have to pay to function to deliver your advertised product/service. The key there is that it means that something like a studio space instead of coming out of each clients pocket direct, instead comes out of every client that hires you for a month - that way it helps keep your costs down (I'm not saying undercharge, but you need to have a competitive rate).

And yes anything ontop of that that you have to hire in should be a specialist charge because its requiring a one-time increase to your cost of doing business, so that cost has to be covered by the client (again unless you have reason to discount for the client).

This is exactly what I wanted to know - thank you!

 

[bratkinson]

About a year and a half ago, MLeek posted a well written, detailed list of how to the Cost of Doing Business (CODB). If I were ever going to go pro, I'd review her posting first.

http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/general-shop-talk/304732-finding-your-codb-your-hourly-rate.html