Question about People Photos Entered in a Contest

[weepete]

Some further reading:

Dan Heller's Photography Business Blog: Busting Myths about Model Releases

It certianly appears that you don't need a model release in this circumstance.

 

[skieur]

If the photo shows up in a magazine somewhere, then the contest people are the "publishers" so the photographer has NO responsibility or liability.

skieur

But that doesn't necessarily keep the photographer out of court and paying legal fees to establish that the photographer has no responsibility or liability.

Yes, it does, since the photographer probably signed the rules to the contest giving the contest people the rights to publish his/her work related to the contest. Liability and responsibility relates to publishing the photo, NOT taking the picture.

skieur

 

[skieur]

Some further reading:

Dan Heller's Photography Business Blog: Busting Myths about Model Releases

It certianly appears that you don't need a model release in this circumstance.

An excellent reference for all photographers.

skieur

 

[vintagesnaps]

My understanding is that releases would be needed for commercial use such as for advertising purposes, and for retail use which I believe would include selling prints. For editorial use such as publication in a newspaper or magazine a release wouldn't likely be needed but could be requested.

If you would win it seems like you'd be making a profit from usage of your photo, and if the subject saw him/herself in a Nikon ad later on and objected, I don't know where you'd stand if you hadn't obtained permission (although I'd expect that a contest sponsored by a reputable company would have guidelines on obtaining releases as needed). I don't think I'd use a photo of a subject under 18 without the parents' permission.

Maybe carrying 'pocket' releases or using an app to get permission when you're taking photos would have you covered for any potential usage later on. ASMP is one professional photographers organization that I'm familiar with that has some relevant info. available on their website. Business and Legal FAQ | American Society of Media Photographers .

Sharon

 

[sm4him]

My understanding is that releases would be needed for commercial use such as for advertising purposes, and for retail use which I believe would include selling prints. For editorial use such as publication in a newspaper or magazine a release wouldn't likely be needed but could be requested.

If you would win it seems like you'd be making a profit from usage of your photo, and if the subject saw him/herself in a Nikon ad later on and objected, I don't know where you'd stand if you hadn't obtained permission (although I'd expect that a contest sponsored by a reputable company would have guidelines on obtaining releases as needed). I don't think I'd use a photo of a subject under 18 without the parents' permission.

Maybe carrying 'pocket' releases or using an app to get permission when you're taking photos would have you covered for any potential usage later on. ASMP is one professional photographers organization that I'm familiar with that has some relevant info. available on their website. Business and Legal FAQ | American Society of Media Photographers .

Sharon

Having a release on hand wouldn't have helped me in this instance, except maybe for one of the photos--the rest of the shots were of people actually IN the parade and I doubt it would have ended well if I'd tried to walk alongside them and get a model release. :lmao:

Every time someone else answers, I change my mind about whether or not to submit the people photos. BUT...I think I've answered my own question now. I went back and read through all the entry guidelines again and saw no reference to releases at all. Which seemed a little odd--so I started thinking I was missing something. Finally found the "missing" part--a "disclaimers" pdf link. In that, it states:
"Entrants are required to obtain the prior permission and consent of the persons who are portrayed in their works or who hold the copyright or other intellectual property rights to the works or the items portrayed therein. Entrants agree to fully indemnify the organizer and accept all responsibility for any third-party complaints or claims concerning copyright or other intellectual property rights infringement or damages

arising from the works submitted."



That sounds like it is saying that if there are people in the photo, you need a release. Period. Right?

 

[weepete]

Can you email them directly and ask? That might be the best way to clear it up

 

[skieur]

My understanding is that releases would be needed for commercial use such as for advertising purposes, and for retail use which I believe would include selling prints. For editorial use such as publication in a newspaper or magazine a release wouldn't likely be needed but could be requested.

Sharon

Nope! Commercial use means for advertising purposes ONLY. Retail use is allowed.

skieur

 

[vintagesnaps]

True it wouldn't be possible to get releases signed during a parade! - not unless you can ride along in a clown car. Seriously I suppose you'd have to be at the end of the parade and catch the subjects then or maybe contact the group that marched or sponsored the float etc.

In the disclaimer from the contest it says that entrants are required to obtain permission, and that entrants agree to accept responsibility for complaints etc. That seems to be saying that you need to get a release and if someone sees their photo used without their permission and complains it would be your responsibility to deal with the complaint.

ASMP of course is only one of many professional photographers organizations, but on their site the section about releases suggests getting a release anytime the subjects are recognizable in the photo, and to do so unless you're sure you'd never want to use the image for any purpose other than editorial. I think that retail use would include making money by selling your photos and would require a release.
Property and Model Releases | American Society of Media Photographers

Sharon

 

[skieur]

I think that retail use would include making money by selling your photos and would require a release.
Property and Model Releases | American Society of Media Photographers

Sharon

The law says commercial use which is defined as advertising. This definition has been confirmed in a famous court case in New York.

skieur

 

[sm4him]

Can you email them directly and ask? That might be the best way to clear it up

I did email them, actually. But I think it went straight to Japan, where they had a bit of trouble translating it.
I emailed them, with a snippet of a quote from their own disclaimer pdf, and said that the disclaimer made it sound like we needed a release for any people pictures, even if there were pictures that we not normally need to have a release for. I asked if they could please tell me if that was accurate

I got a reply back that said, please reference our disclaimer document and then supplied the same quote that I had included in my original email. VERY helpful.

True it wouldn't be possible to get releases signed during a parade! - not unless you can ride along in a clown car. Seriously I suppose you'd have to be at the end of the parade and catch the subjects then or maybe contact the group that marched or sponsored the float etc.

In the disclaimer from the contest it says that entrants are required to obtain permission, and that entrants agree to accept responsibility for complaints etc. That seems to be saying that you need to get a release and if someone sees their photo used without their permission and complains it would be your responsibility to deal with the complaint.

ASMP of course is only one of many professional photographers organizations, but on their site the section about releases suggests getting a release anytime the subjects are recognizable in the photo, and to do so unless you're sure you'd never want to use the image for any purpose other than editorial. I think that retail use would include making money by selling your photos and would require a release.
Property and Model Releases | American Society of Media Photographers

Sharon

In the end, THIS was the kicker for me. The contest disclaimer document sounded as if it was saying that:
a) you're responsible for getting releases on any people photos, and
b) should anyone complain or sue, it's YOUR problem, not ours.

Whether they could legitimately get away with it being solely the photographer's problem if they were sued for using a photo, I don't know.
But they can certainly require releases as a condition for their contest, even when one might not ordinarily be necessary.

So, I did the only thing I could do to be absolutely certain there wasn't going to be a problem--I didn't enter the people photos. And I'm pretty sure the bugs and birds I entered won't sue me.
None of the people pictures were really anything outstanding anyway; I was just trying to toss some in there because it looks like past winners are heavily skewed toward people photos. But, it's really better to go with my strengths anyway.

I appreciate all the helpful comments though, and I think I'll be checking out some of those links, as I do plan to work on learning people photography a little better this year.

 

[Josh66]

I got a reply back that said, please reference our disclaimer document and then supplied the same quote that I had included in my original email. VERY helpful.

Every time I have emailed a company about questions regarding their ToS or some disclaimer, all I got back was 'refer to the ToS/disclaimer'.

I think it's their way of making sure that if you do something that violates the Tos, it will be your fault, not theirs. They don't want some trainee telling people they can do things that would actually violate the ToS, so as a precaution, they just don't tell you anything at all.