RAW, more questions...

[puyjapin]

I am of the understanding that a jpeg does some processing in the camera. So if I was to set my cameras settings with for example enhanced contrast, sharpness etc etc that will be taken into account in the jpegs image.
If i choose RAW are all these settings ignored in camera entirely.
Would I be correct to think that the RAW setting only looks at ISO, Shutter and Aperture?
Thanks

 

[Overread]

You are correct in that the camera settings - contrast, saturation, sharpening, noise removal etc... are not performed to RAW shots. The data is essentail RAW from the camera sensor so there is no editing applied to the shot*. This is why many RAW shots look softer out of camera - - however the LCD view and also thumbnail view in your computer do read the edit settings and show them to you - that way you can have a better idea of what the final shot (After editing) might look like


* however sometimes things such as noise removal are applied even to RAWs in some cameras as a feature

 

[puyjapin]

very interesting and helpful. I just need to know how to fix the raw files in camera raw now! So i assume i can make the raw look as the processed jpeg or better just using camera raw?

 

[puyjapin]

so i suppose a good way to practice may be to shoot in raw and jpeg basic and open the jpeg in a viewer next to the raw file and play about with the raw until something more along the lines or better than the jpeg look?

 

[Overread]

Yes many people do do that - though remember your shooting RAW to get more than just the JPEG - so whilst its good to start that way and it will show you where you need to edit a bit more on your RAW files, do remember that you have that added control now and can impose your own view on the editing of the shot if you so desire

 

[Dwig]

...
If i choose RAW are all these settings ignored in camera entirely. ...

No, not entirely. ISO, of course, influences the metering system. The other settings are not ignored in that they are recoreded in the RAW file's headder information.

Some external RAW converters, specifically Nikon's own, will read the settings recorded in the RAW file created by your D40 and use those as their default settings when you first open the RAW image. As a result, it can be very convienient to make appropriate camera settings when shooting if you are going to be using Nikons ViewNX or CaptureNX software for your conversions.

Since other software vendor's RAW converters use slightly different code these saved settings, for the most part, are useless to them. Attempting to apply them would not result in usable results. In general, the White Balance and ISO settings are all that they can use.

 

[ev1lmagic]

sorry to be thread jacking, but i've tried searching many times already and have had no success. i have seen many post on which programs to use to deal with raw files. but i still do not understand how to use it. for example, camera raw in cs3. i still don't know how to open the raw files to work with them. can anyone shed some light on me please =)

 

[ev1lmagic]

moreover, i'm a bit confused, when editing a photo that was shot in raw, do you save it at jpeg then work with it? or work with it in raw then save it as a Jpeg? the reason i'm asking is because i saw the option in viewnx that came with my nikon where i can convert to jpeg. but i always was under the assumption that you edit the photo while it's sitll in raw, then save it as a jpeg.

 

[ev1lmagic]

i'm not sure if having a D90 has anything to do with the problem with opening raw files in cs3. i just saw the thread on that problem...x.x

 

[NucleaRR]

sorry to be thread jacking, but i've tried searching many times already and have had no success. i have seen many post on which programs to use to deal with raw files. but i still do not understand how to use it. for example, camera raw in cs3. i still don't know how to open the raw files to work with them. can anyone shed some light on me please =)

moreover, i'm a bit confused, when editing a photo that was shot in raw, do you save it at jpeg then work with it? or work with it in raw then save it as a Jpeg? the reason i'm asking is because i saw the option in viewnx that came with my nikon where i can convert to jpeg. but i always was under the assumption that you edit the photo while it's sitll in raw, then save it as a jpeg.

RAW files are just what the name implies raw image data. In Raw when you open the shutter and take a photo the camera image sensor captures 'more' data than it does when shooting in .jpeg. Essentially the Raw file is what the camera uses to process a .jpeg while still in the camera. If you shoot Raw then you are using this file to 'develop' the final resulting jpeg, outside of the camera. It is always better to shoot Raw because during post-processing you have more control on the outcome. For instance if you took several photos on a very bright day and it was hard to see whether they came out ok on the LCD screen you can later adjust them in raw. With raw you can usually make adjustments to the white balance, exposure compensation, sharpness and contrast to name a few. When adjustments are made it is in a more linear fashion so that the whole image is adjusted accordingly. Jpegs are limited to what the camera processes for you and is harder to change in post-processing. While raw image adjustment are linear jpegs are not, adjusting the contrast on a raw file is drastically different then doing it to a jpeg. It is possible but you are limited in your control of the way it is corrected.

 

[Dwig]

moreover, i'm a bit confused, when editing a photo that was shot in raw, do you save it at jpeg then work with it? or work with it in raw then save it as a Jpeg? the reason i'm asking is because i saw the option in viewnx that came with my nikon where i can convert to jpeg. but i always was under the assumption that you edit the photo while it's sitll in raw, then save it as a jpeg.

Several points:

1. JPEG and RAW formats exist only as disk files. Anytime you see and image on screen the image you see is no longer either JPEG or RAW.

2. There are two classes of software, image editors (e.g. Photoshop) and RAW converters (e.g. Adobe Camera RAW, Nikon Capture NX, ...)

3. There are thousands of different workflow that are possible. There is no one way to handle images.

The answer to your question depends on your definition of "work on an image".

When you open an image in a RAW converter you are presented with a surogate image generated from the RAW data using some default settings that the software chooses. You then make adjustments to those settings and they are applied to the RAW image to create a new surogate to view. When you are done the software processes the original RAW data to generate the desired output or it simply saves the settings as a script to use as starting points for some later conversion.

How the converted image is output depends on the software. Standalone RAW converters (e.g. Nikon Capture NX) can output to a printer or to a file. You have a choice of file formats with most software (CaptureNX offers JPEG and TIFF). Plugin software (e.g. Adobe Camera RAW, aka ACR) outputs by sending the image to the host application (Photoshop, Photoshop Elements, ...) in that application's native memory format (not anything you've even seen in disk file form) for further true image editing before final save. Some applications have plugin-type RAW converters that are embedded in the host application. The only difference between these and true modular plugins is that they can't be interchanged manually; you have to update the whole application to update the converter.

Most photographers that regularily shoot RAW will use either a good image editor with a good plugin converter (e.g. Photoshop & ACR) or a high-power standalone converter (e.g. Nikon Capture NX), if one is available for their camera's RAW flavor, that offers localized settings (e.g. different conversion settings for different portions of the picture) and a few image editor like modification tools (red eye removal, dust removal, ...).

Some use both a standalone converter and a powerful image editor, prefering one app for its convertions (degree of control, subtle qualities in the image, ...) and a true image editor for more powerful image manipulation. Good practice demands that you never use JPEG as an intermediary file format for moving images between two apps. TIFF is excellent for the purpose. JPEGs should only be used as the final (read: never to be opened and edited again) image.

 

[Samanax]

sorry to be thread jacking, but i've tried searching many times already and have had no success. i have seen many post on which programs to use to deal with raw files. but i still do not understand how to use it. for example, camera raw in cs3. i still don't know how to open the raw files to work with them. can anyone shed some light on me please =)

i'm not sure if having a D90 has anything to do with the problem with opening raw files in cs3. i just saw the thread on that problem...x.x

You need to update CS3 ACR (Adobe Camera RAW) with the latest version to work with the RAW files from your D90. You can get ACR 4.6 here. Be sure you get the one for CS3 because the CS4 ACR won't work in CS3.

moreover, i'm a bit confused, when editing a photo that was shot in raw, do you save it at jpeg then work with it? or work with it in raw then save it as a Jpeg? the reason i'm asking is because i saw the option in viewnx that came with my nikon where i can convert to jpeg. but i always was under the assumption that you edit the photo while it's sitll in raw, then save it as a jpeg.

When you're done editing your image in ACR, hit the "Open Image" button and your image will be automatically taken to CS3 and then you can continue editing it. You're not working with a JPEG yet, you're working on a proprietary Adobe image format that CS3 can manipulate. Only when you're done and are ready to save your image is it actually converted to a JPEG (or whatever image format you choose).

 

[Sherman Banks]

sorry to be thread jacking, but i've tried searching many times already and have had no success. i have seen many post on which programs to use to deal with raw files. but i still do not understand how to use it. for example, camera raw in cs3. i still don't know how to open the raw files to work with them. can anyone shed some light on me please =)

I'm reading Scott Kelby's book on CS4 which he has a very detailed and insightful section on using Camera Raw. I'm not sure how many of the rules apply to CS3, but you may want to look into this or a book on CS3. I didn't use RAW before this but now seeing how much you can do with RAW vs. Jpeg, I don't think I'll shoot Jpeg's again.

 

[Samanax]

I'm reading Scott Kelby's book on CS4 which he has a very detailed and insightful section on using Camera Raw. I'm not sure how many of the rules apply to CS3, but you may want to look into this or a book on CS3.

[ame="http://www.amazon.com/Photoshop-Digital-Photographers-Voices-Matter/dp/0321501918/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1238369705&sr=8-1"]The Adobe Photoshop CS3 Book for Digital Photographers (Voices That Matter) by Scott Kelby[/ame]