Recommendations on VR, IS, etc.

[SuzukiGS750EZ]

Does anybody here know if there is a rule for IS, VR, etc. when shooting? I know that eventually as you increase your shutter speed the compensation will start causing the opposite of what it's supposed to do, stabilize. But at what point does that happen, and is it consistent? I own two canon lenses with IS and one tamron lens with VR, essentially the same thing... the tamron has 3 modes. #1 is for a balance between image stabilization at the point of release as well as viewfinder stabilization upon focus. #2 is panning stabilization, which i have yet to use. And #2 provides (i believe off of memory) 4.5 stops of stabilization. So if it's a nice day and i'm shooting at say 1/600 do i use #1 or do i use #3 for EXTRA stability... or... do i not use any since the shutter speed is decent. As well as the canon, same thing? They only have "on" or "off" though.

 

[jcdeboever]

The way I understand it (I'm a noob)... Assuming 1/focal length as the normal minimum shutter speed for a handheld camera, with IS you should be able to handhold the camera at a shutter speed 4 stops slower (if the lens specs it). "Stops" refer to doubling or halving shutter speeds. For your 18-55, the minimum shutter speed to hand-hold at 55mm lens should be about 1/60 sec. With IS, you should be able to go as slow as 1/4 sec at the same aperture (starting with 1/60, 4 stops would be 1/30 > 1/15 > 1/8 > 1/4). Now, this is only for static subjects. IS cannot compensate for subject motion. Some lens manufactures claim 3 stops, 4 stops, etc but this is not always the case in reality. It's always good to figure this out on your glass before you go shooting in low light situations without a flash. @Ysarex could probably explain it better than me, that is how my simple mind interprets it.

 

[Overread17 5]

A few thoughts:

1) Far as I'm aware IS/VR/OS etc... don't lower their impact if you use a faster shutter speed. At least I've not encountered/heard of it causing more shake as a result of the camera using a faster shutter speed before.

2) When it can cause more vibration related softening is when the camera/lens is tripod mounted or otherwise totally stable. Ergo when there is no body motion to counteract. When that happens it can induce its own softening effect on a photo.

3) Most forms of anti-shake require a period of time from the moment they are started to the point where they actually counter motion. This spinning up period is why people who very suddenly spot and shoot shots can disable anti-shake because the spin up period is when they want to take their shot.

4) How much shake reduction you get will vary depending on your own physical fitness; your stance; your hand holding skill etc... As a result you might get less or even more than what is stated on the box. Of course much of this is the same as handholding induced softening - so yes anti-shake takes the edge off; but good method is a must.

5) A stable viewfinder view can be of help even when the conditions give favourable shutterspeeds as it can greatly aid panning and motion tracking subjets when the viewfinder image is still.

 

[Derrel]

Thom Hogan has an article on Nikon VR which discusses some basics and underlying ideas behind Nikon's in-lens stabilization systems. Not "all" systems are identical, so the instruction manuals from the manufacturers can be important to read. Some older systems required the user to make selections (ie Canon's Mode 1, Mode 2 IS, etc, and Nikon's Active/Normal VR), while some newer systems use auto-detect to set the right type of stabilizing, based on data the system collects. We need to keep in mind, in-lens stabilization is now in its second decade of existence, and improvements/variations are coming along every so often.

I think Hogan's article was titled Nikon VR Explained/. Okay, yeah, just checked, and that's the title. It's now about seven years old, so not sure what might have been updated since its original publication date, but some of the things in the article might be helpful to get a baseline understanding.

Nikon VR explained

 

[Overread17 5]

Even though some newer lenses can detect when the lens is on a stable surface its not perfect. Eg my 70-200mm can auto-detect, but put it on a tripod and do a very slow shutterspeed shot and the anti-shake kicks in instantly. So I tend to go by the argument that you know if you're shooting on a tripod/monopod so disable it if you don't need it.

 

[SuzukiGS750EZ]

Is vr for a circular motion rather than horizontal or vertical like say me shaking on a tripod. It can't really shake as it would in my hands.

 

[astroNikon]

Is vr for a circular motion rather than horizontal or vertical like say me shaking on a tripod. It can't really shake as it would in my hands.

with VR/IS OFF
Take a photo of something static at 1/1000
then do it again at 1/20

then take a look to see how much your hands move while taking the photo by comparing the two photos.

The VR/IS is for hand movement. Not for subject movement.

 

[SuzukiGS750EZ]

Is vr for a circular motion rather than horizontal or vertical like say me shaking on a tripod. It can't really shake as it would in my hands.

with VR/IS OFF
Take a photo of something static at 1/1000
then do it again at 1/20

then take a look to see how much your hands move while taking the photo by comparing the two photos.

The VR/IS is for hand movement. Not for subject movement.

No I know this. Shutter speed is for movement. What I was asking is, with vr on and it on a tripod, movement is in a straight line in any direction. When hand held you can wiggle anywhere. Does vr not work well in a tripod due to linear movement?

 

[astroNikon]

There's several generations of "VR". "VR" Is the nikon version. There's also OS from Tamron, etc. Tamron has multiple iterations of VR/OS for horizontal, vertical emphasis, etc.

And since VR is in the lens, it's very lens specific on what and how good it is.

 

[Derrel]

Read the Thom Hogan article referenced above as a primer/overview. In-lens stabilizing is based on having "some shake" in the system, so on a tripod, leave the head loosey-goosey, not locked down firmly. Leaving VR on at high speeds (above about 1/500 seco.) can cause a "feedback loop". Again, the article references a LOT of common misunderstandings about in-lens stabilizing.

And again, EACH in-lens system has some of its own quirks. At one time, Canon's IS worked well on tripods, but Nikon's did not, and many millions of photos have been ruined by people not understanding how **their** system works. Not all lenses work the same way, and the tech is constantly evolving slowly. There's little value in answering questions about this technology in any absolute way, since the technology and implementation is so varied among the manufacturers and the different generations of the technology.

 

[table1349]

Image Stabilization: When to Use it and When to Turn it Off

image stabilisation - Canon Professional Network Longer read.

 

[SuzukiGS750EZ]

So that article says you shouldn't hand hold beyond the basic 1/focal length rule. Being I shoot on a crop sensor of 1.6 and a 600mm focal length at the longest, that's 960. So let's round up. 1/1000. So at 600mm at 1/1000 I'm good, anything lower turn on vr? Or would I go by 600mm so anything below 1/600 turn on vr?

 

[Overread17 5]

the handholding "rule" is only a guideline. Some people have to have faster shutter speeds; others slower.

In addition lens focal length and weight come into play. In my experience the rule works for around say 50-200mm ranges. Once you're shorter than 50mm you can hold steady at much slower speeds than the rule suggests; similarly longer focal lengths often require more. Weight and size also come into play; big supertelephoto lenses often require more shutterspeed because fatigue kicks in a lot quicker.
Of course alongside that you've got to have good posture and shooting method as well as physical fitness.


So they are only rough guidelines to give you somewhere to start.

 

[Derrel]

So that article says you shouldn't hand hold beyond the basic 1/focal length rule. Being I shoot on a crop sensor of 1.6 and a 600mm focal length at the longest, that's 960. So let's round up. 1/1000. So at 600mm at 1/1000 I'm good, anything lower turn on vr? Or would I go by 600mm so anything below 1/600 turn on vr?

Some people feel that the basic rule of 1/over focal length is too slow for 1.5x and 1.6x sensor cameras. Remember, the Basic Rule of 1/focal length is for NON-moving subjects, and for ideal conditions (still subject, no wind, good shooting posture,etc). It is not a 'rule' but a guideline, really. If you photograph Forumula 1 cars at 185 MPH and are not panning along with them, 1/500 second with a 500mm lens will cause blurry subjects if the cars are at closer distances, and moving across the film plane, left to right; if the cars approach head-on directly AT the lens front, you could "freeze" them at 1/500 in many scenarios. At a 3/4 angle approach, they might blur a bit, but not terribly.

What, exact shutter speed is needed to prevent SUBJECT blurring depends on if the camera remains stationary, or if it is panned with the target and its direction of travel, or AGAINST the direction of the target's travel.

The closer the subject, the more speed is needed to freeze it; the larger the subject in the frame, the more speed is needed; the angle of travel is important too. As overread mentioned above, speeds of subject, lens focal length, size of the subject (related to distance in a rough but variable manner), and angle of travel ALL factor in.

If you DOUBLE 1/focal, such as 1/1000 forma 500mm lens, you're in better position to stop fast movement than if you stay at 1/focal or 1/500 second. HOWEVER...for a race car at 195MPH. Three, or four times the dfocal length, or 1/1500 or 1/2000 wil stop more movement than wil slower speeds. And at the speeds above 1/500--turn in-lens stabilization OFF under "ideal" situations.

In the wind, or on a rocking boat on the ocean, I've used VR at 1/750 to 1/1500 with good success using Nikon's ACTIVE VR settting on my old 80-400 VR Generation 1 lens. I would say that in ideal conditions, turn the stabilizer ON at slowish speeds. In the wind, turn the stabilizer ON. In a moving boat, ferry, or aircraft, likely turn it ON as well. If you're out of breath and huffing and puffing, turn it ON. One area where IS and VR is BETTER than a tripod is in windy conditions!