Reinvest or keep buying Canon ?

pcacj · Jan 19, 2010

My level is absolute beginner and I currently have a Canon XTi with two decent lenses and several low-end lenses. I have experimented with these lenses and do not currently modify my pics for color enhancement. My pics seem drab. Obviously my skill level has tons to do with that but I want to start off with the correct equipment so that I know the results are my skills and not my equipment. I was considering starting over and getting the new Nikon D700 and ONE awesome lens rather than buying one or two prime Canon lenses (70-200 and a 17-55). My goal in the future is to take senior pics and other portraiture photos where color and skin tone are of major importance. The larger format of the D700 is a big motivator. Any thoughts?

zeto88 · Jan 19, 2010

D700? For a beginner?
You can pick up a D90 for half the price, also a 50mm f/1.4 D for another 400ish.
A great set up for portraits, and you've only spent half the money you intended too!
Now you can pick up a great strobist set.

pharmakon · Jan 19, 2010

You don't have to buy a more expensive new camera to get better color. Make sure you are nailing the exposure, as improper exposure can wash out your color. If you are shooting in jpeg look at your in camera processing settings, you can probably boost the saturation in there somewhere as well.

Full frame cameras have their advantages, but I don't think merely buying one and changing nothing else about how you are shooting would fix the issue.

SLRJoe · Jan 19, 2010

I think the Canon XTi is a really good camera. Canon do make really good cameras and lenses, and I feel that moving to Nikon now you've already got some Canon kit is a bit of a waste. If you wanted to upgrade your kit, why not get a better lens for your current canon, or get a new canon camera...

I think the difference in quality between Canon and Nikon is negligible really, as both are well respected brands within the industry.

Overread · Jan 19, 2010

My first thought is why you are thinking on moving to the Nikon Fullframe camera when canon have their own fullframe camera options (the 5DM2 or a second hand 5D at a reasonable price).
What advantages are you hoping to get from the Nikon system over the Canon system - or is it a grass is greener on the other side situation?
Also why not save your money and instead of a new camera and a new system get an awesome lens for the canon camera you have now. If you get L grade glass it will be fully fullframe compatable and thus will be able to follow you onto a fullframe camera at a later date (and good glass really does make far more difference than a new camera body in image quality - differenes in frame size aside)

Further if you are finding that you are having problems getting what you want from your current images new gear is not going to solve the problem outright - what you need to do is start to gain control over the camera and improve with what you have a little more. Then when you move to the more expensive tools you can really get your monies worth out of them. For example you say that you currently do not edit your results - which means you are effectivly missing out a step in your photography. Yes getting it right in camera is essential to good photography, but good editing (it does not mean lots of editing, just good use of editing) is also a key stage.

I would encourage you to post up examples of your work to this site (and maybe one or two other forums just toget a wider range of views) and then get feedback on it. That should really help you to get further in what you are after.

have a read through this before posting images: http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/...r-signatures-get-critiques-your-work-c-c.html

And also have a look around this website here: Ron Bigelow Articles
(in particular look at the histogram; RAW; levels and curves as starting points)
I would also recomend the book "Understanding Exposure" by Bryan Peterson

Dao · Jan 19, 2010

pcacj said:
... do not currently modify my pics for color enhancement. My pics seem drab.

Maybe it is time to learn how to post-process your photos. (as well as learn more about photography) Some cameras are factory tuned to produce photos with higher color saturation while others are not. It varies from camera to camera (same or different brands) And of course, you can adjust those settings in your camera for jpeg output. Or edit it yourself during post processing.

gsgary · Jan 19, 2010

pcacj said:
My level is absolute beginner and I currently have a Canon XTi with two decent lenses and several low-end lenses. I have experimented with these lenses and do not currently modify my pics for color enhancement. My pics seem drab. Obviously my skill level has tons to do with that but I want to start off with the correct equipment so that I know the results are my skills and not my equipment. I was considering starting over and getting the new Nikon D700 and ONE awesome lens rather than buying one or two prime Canon lenses (70-200 and a 17-55). My goal in the future is to take senior pics and other portraiture photos where color and skin tone are of major importance. The larger format of the D700 is a big motivator. Any thoughts?

If your shots look drab with an XTi they will look drab with a D700, **** in **** out as they say, if you don't know where your going wrong better gear will not get you better results, practise, practise, practise

Village Idiot · Jan 19, 2010

pcacj said:
My level is absolute beginner and I currently have a Canon XTi with two decent lenses and several low-end lenses. I have experimented with these lenses and do not currently modify my pics for color enhancement. My pics seem drab. Obviously my skill level has tons to do with that but I want to start off with the correct equipment so that I know the results are my skills and not my equipment. I was considering starting over and getting the new Nikon D700 and ONE awesome lens rather than buying one or two prime Canon lenses (70-200 and a 17-55). My goal in the future is to take senior pics and other portraiture photos where color and skin tone are of major importance. The larger format of the D700 is a big motivator. Any thoughts?

Sorry guy, you're strategy sounds like General Armstrong Custer's and we all know how that one went...(I hope)

Your camera is more than capable of shooting amazing photographs. As everyone else says, buying a new camera will not help this. You should really do some learning to improve your photos. If you want to do portraits and senior photos, lighting is going to be the most important thing you need to learn as it's crucial for getting that amazing shot.

Don't get me wrong, if you have the money then have fun with your D700; just make sure that you still have money to spend when you find out that $1500 in lighting equipment is more essential to you getting the shots you want rather than $5000 in camera body and lens.

My flickr lnk is below. Without checking out the meta data, you should challenge yourself to be able to tell which ones where taken with a 300D, 400D, 30D, and 5D MKII.

www.flickr.com/cokronk/photos

Derrel · Jan 19, 2010

Yes, a full frame body makes much more sense for somebody who wants to do top quality portraiture. There is a reason the majority of experienced "people photographers" (wedding-portrait-event) prefer a full frame body. The reason is called "background control". FF is a larger format, roughly 2.3 times greater in area than APS-C, which leads to greater High ISO capability, lower noise, and slightly wider dynamic range than comparable generation APS-C sensor cameras can deliver. A D700 has a professionally capable autofocus system that is very proficient with off-center AF points, which is an area the 5D and 5D-II bodies are exceptionally weak at--they don't actually HAVE any off-center AF points, only a very tightly-clustered diamond right in the middle of the frame. I own a 5D and have for years. I like the FF sensor, but the AF system is quite weak compared to Nikon's.

As far as lighting gear goes, buy used Speedotron studio lighting and you will save 50 to 80 percent over new prices on equipment that lasts three decades or more. If you are really serious, why buy a stepping-stone camera, or why "settle" for an amateur-oriented APS-C body when the top pros in "people photography" are almost all shooting FF bodies? Seriously--the BODY has a huge effect on the image rendition. 35FF digital gives you dozens and dozens of superb lens choices with the appropriate DOF and the appropriate angles of view for in-studio and on-location shooting. If you want pro equipment, by all means treat yourself to it, and shoot like the top shooters shoot. Just because you are "new", don't let others tell you don't deserve top-tier equipment, or that you need to work your way up to it.

Dao · Jan 19, 2010

Derrel, while I agree with you 100% it is fine for a beginner to use a pro-body, but I do not think that will solve his/her problem of not getting good image.

syphlix · Jan 19, 2010

a good photographer can take great photos on any equipment.

also, the XTi is a great camera and can definitely do what you want

also in ref to "buying one or two prime Canon lenses (70-200 and a 17-55)" - those are not primes

also, you could get a used 5d for < $1200 if you really needed a full frame, but it seems you don't even know what you need the full frame for

my advice, learn how to shoot better pictures (this has nothing to do with your equipment) . when you get so good that your equipment clearly limits you, then upgrade.

Tulsa · Jan 19, 2010

Keep the Canon XTI, its a good camera, I just recently had a XSI, which is just one step up. here is one of my more popular photos I have taken with the XSI, striaght from the camera, with the 18-55mm lens that came with the camera, no editing.

Village Idiot · Jan 19, 2010

This:

Derrel said:
Yes, a full frame body makes much more sense for somebody who wants to do top quality portraiture.

Doesn't really have anything to do with this:

pcacj said:
My level is absolute beginner and I currently have a Canon XTi with two decent lenses and several low-end lenses. I have experimented with these lenses and do not currently modify my pics for color enhancement. My pics seem drab.

grafxman · Jan 19, 2010

You should have received a CD with Canon software with the camera. Install the software and launch the Digital Photo Pro (DPP) software. Use it to increase the saturation and brightness of your images. Experiment with different settings and adjustments. You can use software to make your drab images pop. Hope this helps. Good luck.

inTempus · Jan 19, 2010

As noted, you could by a D3X and it won't make your images look any better at your current skill level. Based on your comments, it appears you think it's your gear holding you back and it's not. Don't fall into the trap of thinking you can improve your photography if you throw enough money at it.

I would focus less on buying a new body right now and focus more on trying to figure out how to take (and edit) a quality photo. Your current body will take stunning pictures if you do your part.

Equipment won't make you a better photographer.

With that said, when you do step up to full frame you have several good choices.

The D700 is a fine choice, but it's not necessarily the best portraiture camera. "Best" is very subjective. If we went by popularity and sales numbers, then the 5D2 would be the "best", if not the most popular, full frame camera.

The AF system of the D700 is great for shooting sports but really has little advantage in the studio. The 5D2 has 21 megapixels for fine detail whereas the D700 has 12 megapixels. To get 20+ megapixels in the Nikon line you have to spend $8,000 on a D3X.

Canon also has top of the line glass that is typically more affordable than the Nikon equivalent. Your camera is only as good as the glass you attach to it, and if you want a comprehensive kit you can get more bang for your buck with Canon.

I'm not trying to push you towards Canon. Some folks think Nikon is the end-all, be-all and honestly, it's not. There are Canon folks that think Canon is the end-all, be-all as well, and it's not.

Don't put too much stock in what people say about their pet brands on the internet. Get out and handle the cameras you might be interested in. Rent them, shoot with them at the local store, then make an informed purchasing decision based on the info you gather. Price things out, look down the road to future purchases... check out things like after sales support. I've found that the Canon CPS program is amazing as an example.

But for now, focus on learning how to use a camera then worry about upgrading to a new body/system. Once you figure out how to use a camera properly, you may discover your tastes/needs have changed.