Rookies are killing the business!

[Steve5D]

This is why I like selling prints. I shoot what I want, when I want, and people see them and say "Oooohhh... I want one".

A quick trip to Costco and a $2.00 mailing tube and I'm putting cash in my checking account.

Photography's not my main gig. Besides, I enjoy it too much to make it a "job". But that doesn't mean I have an aversion to making a few bucks with it when the opportunity arises. I think the whole idea of "If you do what you love, you'll never work a day in your life" is nonsense. By and large, if you do what you love, and then try to make a living at it, it'll suck the fun out of it and make you resent it.

Kept as a side gig, the fun remains...

 

[jake337]

I haven't read any of the posts but.....


There are still photography businesses out there making a killing in their own field.

And it has far more to do with how they run their business than anything.


At the end of the day a camera takes pictures and business ​makes money.

 

[pixmedic]

90+ posts and people STILL worry and fret over how other people run their "businesses" instead of tending to their own.
ive never understood people that blame others for their own shortcomings or failings...but take credit for their successes.
surely the time and energy spend verbally smiting the unwashed masses for daring to pick up a camera and call themselves photographers could be better spent creating new marketing ideas, learning some new photography techniques, TEACHING someone new photography techniques, or just taking pictures in general. just a thought.

 

[imagemaker46]

We've all been sharing our thoughts and opinions on what is right and what is wrong, it has been a good thread for that. Bottom line here is that I will continue to work the way I always have been, trying to continue to make a living from photography, how I make that living, what I charge and what works for me will remain the same. I take away ideas from other people, and if they work, I will use them. I know at the end of the day I'm happy with how I shoot, how much time and energy went into being the best photographer I can be, that's what really matters, not how I make the money.

 

[pixmedic]

We've all been sharing our thoughts and opinions on what is right and what is wrong, it has been a good thread for that. Bottom line here is that I will continue to work the way I always have been, trying to continue to make a living from photography, how I make that living, what I charge and what works for me will remain the same. I take away ideas from other people, and if they work, I will use them. I know at the end of the day I'm happy with how I shoot, how much time and energy went into being the best photographer I can be, that's what really matters, not how I make the money.

sorry for going off topic here imagemaker46, but i've been wondering what lens that is in your avatar? that thing would give anyone lens envy. a very long and fast fixed focal i would guess?

 

[imagemaker46]

We've all been sharing our thoughts and opinions on what is right and what is wrong, it has been a good thread for that. Bottom line here is that I will continue to work the way I always have been, trying to continue to make a living from photography, how I make that living, what I charge and what works for me will remain the same. I take away ideas from other people, and if they work, I will use them. I know at the end of the day I'm happy with how I shoot, how much time and energy went into being the best photographer I can be, that's what really matters, not how I make the money.

sorry for going off topic here imagemaker46, but i've been wondering what lens that is in your avatar? that thing would give anyone lens envy. a very long and fast fixed focal i would guess?

That's my old Canon 400 2.8 FD, picture was shot during the 1998 Winter Olympics, back when my manual focus skills were a little better than they are now. I always hand held that lens, made it easier for shooting sports. I still use it with my digital bodies, have a Canon adapter works great. Still the sharpest glass I have.

 

[bratkinson]

At the end of the day a camera takes pictures and business ​makes money.

Well said, Jake.

 

[pjwarneka]

Great thread. Every forum has one on it. this one is pretty good.

I see one other entity that has hurt the industry. And that is the Old Guard. Keep in mind I am talking in generalities, so I don't mean every single person.
As the noobies came in, it was a perfect time to reinforce the basics, promote individuality and creativity in the industry. But instead they sold them books, filters,straps, actions, seminars,bags,told them they should be like them etc...
they Tour the country for 8 months out of the year on a speaking tour, or spend months doing R&D to build widgets to sell you, yet tell people they are a photographer. It seemed like some were just feeding off the young to supplement their income.

 

[imagemaker46]

Great thread. Every forum has one on it. this one is pretty good.

I see one other entity that has hurt the industry. And that is the Old Guard. Keep in mind I am talking in generalities, so I don't mean every single person.
As the noobies came in, it was a perfect time to reinforce the basics, promote individuality and creativity in the industry. But instead they sold them books, filters,straps, actions, seminars,bags,told them they should be like them etc...
they Tour the country for 8 months out of the year on a speaking tour, or spend months doing R&D to build widgets to sell you, yet tell people they are a photographer. It seemed like some were just feeding off the young to supplement their income.

What do you mean by the Old Guard?

 

[pixmedic]

awe...almost the 100th post here...

 

[pixmedic]

post #100!! YAY!

 

[KmH]

Each person doing this for a living is following a method that works for them personally, whether they're doing 20 shoots a month for $200 each or 1 shoot a month for $4,000. I understand the arguments for both, ......

Actually, I don't think you do understand the arguments for both.

There is a big difference in the time factors involved in doing a 1 hour - $200, 60 images made, retail portrait shoot, and a 10 hour - $4000, 1000 images made event like a wedding.

Each hour of shooting generally requires 3 - 4 hours of pre and post production work.

So a 10 hour wedding (event) shoot winds up requiring 40 to 50 total hours.

In other words, both photographers are making about the same amount of revenue on a per hour basis.

 

[49medic]

If I may be so bold as to add my two cents...

As a newbie myself, I may not understand the intricacies of professional photography, but this appears to be a universal theme these days. Whether it be volume-based retailers, technology shifts, or changes in consumer trends, they all pose a threat to modern business conventions and force adaptation whether anyone likes it or not.

I fully understand the concern of the OP, and you have all made valid arguments. Could I go out tomorrow and charge someone a few hundred dollars for awful wedding photos? Yup. And some of us with very limited experience and skills do. I could operate like a discount operation, undercut you all, get maybe a handful of images that resemble quality work, market myself using social media and DIY branding material, and effectively change the consumer opinion on what is acceptable for wedding (amongst others) photography fees. Sound familiar?

That having been said, there is one major difference between my work and yours: mine sucks. Yours is fantastic. To combat the 'I want cheap (and low quality)' trends, some companies spend a lot of effort marketing quality, and showing clear contrast between the two.

My point is this: There may be a lot of garbage out there, and yes, it does seem bothersome, but that is not your market share. Some people will just not pay your price for quality. However, there are plenty that will. I have been asked to shoot two weddings, and refused. After helping them hire a proper professional and seeing her work, they were sold. Get your work out there, and let people see the difference. Sway the consumer, not the industry ( I knew that I would get a cool one-liner out of that class..).


Just my opinion, for what its worth.

 

[Rafterman]

In other words, both photographers are making about the same amount of revenue on a per hour basis.

Right. Which is exactly why I compared them as equals. It's two different roads that both reach the same destination. There's a reason why I used those monetary figures too. $200 x 20 shoots = $4000 and $4000 x 1 shoot = $4000 as well.

Some people in this thread have explained that they prefer doing several low-dollar shoots while some prefer doing just a few high-dollar shoots when in essence, they're all doing the same amount of work and it just comes down to personal preference.

 

[Ilovemycam]

Cheap digital cameras, cell phones, and the inability of the average person to tell the difference between good and bad. There will never be any kind of "licence" to be certified as a professional photographer. People will still hire photographers because they understand that skill and experience still matters in most situations, the rest of the world doesn't really care if someone has two weeks with a camera or 20 years. When I see that someone is shooting weddings at $2000 for 6 hours work, I wonder what they are getting for for $2000. My son is getting married and asked me to see if I could find a good wedding photographer, as I was involved in the wedding. After looking at 3 web sites with a combined 10 years experience "creating the images that will last a lifetime bs" Packages starting at $2000. I told him I would shoot the wedding, and any photos I was in, I would hand the camera off. I have no doubt that I can shoot the wedding without any concerns and that what I produce will be far better than some $2000 professional wedding photographer could turn out. Weddings are formula, show up, set up and shoot. I have seen some quite amazing wedding photography that portray professional experience and skill. I have seen some that are pure unskilled crap. Like every area of photography there is consistent good and there is consistent bad, unfortunately the gap between the two is getting closer and not for the better.

Before all the professional wedding photographers jump down my throat on this, if you are running a business full time as a wedding photographer and doing a great job at it, I respect that. But the majority aren't doing that, they are weekend pretenders, same as the weekend sports and portrait types. It always looks like easy money until it's the only money. There is a lot more to this business than owning a camera, I'd like everyone that is playing weekend professional to have the opportunity of not having a pay cheque for 6 months and using money from photography only. They would see how much fun the job really is, when it's all you have.

In NY some get $7,500 a wedding.