Rules on street photography

[skieur]

Provide me a reference that specifically states that you have the right to publish a photo if you are trespassing.

This isn't exactly how the law works, you don't typically pass laws that grant rights, that's what the constitution is for. I'm sure that there are permissive laws, but typically you don't need the government's permission top do something that isn't otherwise illegal.

I believe Skieur is right and wrong here. He's wrong in the assertion that trespassing alone is never criminal, but he's also right hat if no law had been committed then you have every right to own the image, and do what you want with it provided that other laws are not broken.

Hypothetically, if you do criminally trespass in jurisdictions that have such a concept the owner of the property could have the court cease the image. However, I don't know if this has ever actually been proven in court.

As I said somewhere else on this forum, the issue you are talking about was settled in a New York court about a year ago. It was in the paper, so I don't know where you would find a reference to it on the net.

A photographer was trespassing when he took a photo and later sold it for publication. The property owner sued the photographer claiming that the photographer could not benefit from committing a crime. The judge ruled that the photographer benefitted from taking the photo which was not a crime, whether he was on someone else's property or not. The property owner lost.

skieur

 

[unpopular]

And as I said, that ruling does not apply to anywhere other than in the jurisdiction where the court was held. The issue of trespassing is not a constitutional issue.

 

[Ballistics]

Let me keep it KISS simple.

1. A public place does not usually have a fence. Examples are: a shopping plaza, public library, city hall, arena, museum etc.

2. Although a public place may be private property, from a legal and logical point of view there is an implied permission to enter and make purchases, do business, be entertained, etc.

3. All the people who enter a shopping plaza or other public place are NOT trespassing...therefore it is only if for example security asks you to leave because you are causing some kind of problem, that you ARE trespassing, if you refuse to do so, and
can be charged.

4. Taking photos is NOT illegal, whether you are trespassing or not, and as the photographer you have the rights to publish those photos as long as they are not used for advertising purposes.

Try some law books particularly in media law if you want to do some serious research and can understand what you are reading.

skieur

All of your condescension aside, and forgetting about everything else for a second. Provide me a reference that specifically states that you have the right to publish a photo if you are trespassing.
Also, show me the reference that specifically states, that you are not trespassing if you are not told to leave, not matter the circumstances.

Let's see it.

All of your intellectual challenges aside, HOW can you not get it that you are NOT trespassing when you enter a public place such as a shopping plaza?????

skieur

10 Important Legal Issues for Photographers | Photo Attorney

Are you on private property to take the photo? You’ll need the owner’s permission to shoot there or you’ll be trespassing.

You can't have a discussion without trying to belittle and insult one's intelligence can you? There's no intellectual challenge. Grow up.

HOW can you not get it that you are NOT trespassing when you enter a public place such as a shopping plaza?????

I said this... where? You are avoiding my post. Show me your references.

 

[skieur]

And as I said, that ruling does not apply to anywhere other than in the jurisdiction where the court was held. The issue of trespassing is not a constitutional issue.

You don't know the law. Photography is in fact protected under the US Constitution as you should certainly know.

skieur

 

[skieur]

All of your condescension aside, and forgetting about everything else for a second. Provide me a reference that specifically states that you have the right to publish a photo if you are trespassing.
Also, show me the reference that specifically states, that you are not trespassing if you are not told to leave, not matter the circumstances.

Let's see it.

All of your intellectual challenges aside, HOW can you not get it that you are NOT trespassing when you enter a public place such as a shopping plaza?????

skieur

10 Important Legal Issues for Photographers | Photo Attorney

Are you on private property to take the photo? You’ll need the owner’s permission to shoot there or you’ll be trespassing.

You can't have a discussion without trying to belittle and insult one's intelligence can you? There's no intellectual challenge. Grow up.

HOW can you not get it that you are NOT trespassing when you enter a public place such as a shopping plaza?????

I said this... where? You are avoiding my post. Show me your references.

You insult your own intelligence by indirectly suggesting that one is trespassing when one enters a public place such as a shopping centre. Why else would you ask me to provide proof from a reference that such NOT the case. Don't avoid this issue by trying to change the context again.

Keep it simple. One issue at a time.


skieur

 

[Ballistics]

All of your intellectual challenges aside, HOW can you not get it that you are NOT trespassing when you enter a public place such as a shopping plaza?????

skieur

10 Important Legal Issues for Photographers | Photo Attorney



You can't have a discussion without trying to belittle and insult one's intelligence can you? There's no intellectual challenge. Grow up.

HOW can you not get it that you are NOT trespassing when you enter a public place such as a shopping plaza?????

I said this... where? You are avoiding my post. Show me your references.

You insult your own intelligence by indirectly suggesting that one is trespassing when one enters a public place such as a shopping centre. Why else would you ask me to provide proof from a reference that such NOT the case. Don't avoid this issue by trying to change the context again.

Keep it simple. One issue at a time.


skieur

Dude, what the hell are you talking about? I never said anything of the sort. Stop trying to twist things.
How did I indirectly suggest that? I'm not avoiding anything, I'm asking you directly to the point where I said any of this?

I asked you to provide proof that you had to be told to leave in order to be trespassing in any situation.
Quote me where I give you this idea. This is like the 4th time I'm asking you to back up your claims and again you don't.

 

[tevo]

I dont give a **** about all this just shoot until you get arrested and while they are dragging you to the car keep shooting

"YOLO"

 

[manaheim]

oh my god...

I mean on the one hand I should probablly be happy someone didn't start ANOTHER new thread on this topic, but are we SERIOUSLY still beating this to death?

 

[skieur]

Well, here is your first mistake:

Quoting you: Is it "take comments out of context" day?

I've been in charge of the security of federal property.
Go on and tell me how all of those places are public property. Or how anything you just said is relevant.

Also, Dig up another month old post to instigate a fight.

Open to the public =/= public space.​

Last edited by Ballistics; 10-09-2012 at 09:57 PM.

I did not say that they were public property, I said that they were public places as defined by the US Supreme Court. I also said in other posts in this thread including my KISS post that public places can be private property. The requirement is public access not public ownership.

Have you got this simple legal concept, yet?...ie. that a public place is not necessarily public property.?

There is no sense moving on, if you don't understand this.

skieur​

 

[unpopular]

And as I said, that ruling does not apply to anywhere other than in the jurisdiction where the court was held. The issue of trespassing is not a constitutional issue.

You don't know the law. Photography is in fact protected under the US Constitution as you should certainly know.

skieur

photography isn't the issue, but rather if the photo was obtained illegally.

this simply isn't a free speech issue, but rather the interpretation of local law concerning the criminality of trespassing. But none of this matters to me here in Montana, only the US Supreme Court has absolute universal jurisdiction, though the federal appeals court tend to agree with other district decisions.

I know that a lot of people have a hard time understanding the federal court systems, but trust me, it doesn't matter at all what a NY state court says, and federal appeal courts disagree with one another all the time. Just because a court ruled something in NY state does not necessarily mean it aplies to the rest of the country.

An attorney can try to persuade the court with the rulings from another jurisdiction, but nothing prevents the judge to conclude that the ruling in the other jurisdiction is "wrong" even if the two courts are at the same level.

 

[gsgary]

If they didnt see taking the shot how would they prove it was taken illegally

 

[Ballistics]

If they didnt see taking the shot how would they prove it was taken illegally

Vantage point. The image can be used to prove that you were trespassing.

 

[skieur]

If they didnt see taking the shot how would they prove it was taken illegally

The shot was not taken illegally because it is not illegal to take the shot. That is US law.

skieur

 

[unpopular]

Which US law?

 

[skieur]

1. Photos can be taken in any public place such as a shopping centre, museum, city hall etc. unless there are signs to the contrary or you are told photos are forbidden by security or a rep. of the owner.

2. If you refuse to stop taking photos at this point, and/or refuse to leave then you can be charged with trespassing.

3. Your photos that you have taken are yours with all the same rights as are true if they had been taken in any other public place such as the street etc.

Notice the law is against trespassing NOT taking photos.

skieur