Shoot in b&w or convert - advantages?

[BrianV]

The Foveon sensor records color: light passing through the layers of Silicon in the sensor get absorbed at different depths. So- no Color Mosaic filter, it records color. Still best to convert to monochrome during post-processing.

Some high-end digital sensors use detectors made of different material to record "color", different bands of light. Some early (1990s) consumer digital cameras used a beamsplitter and filters to record color using 3 different detectors.

Most color cameras use "Mosaic" filters, filters with tiles of (usually) red-green-blue over each of the sensor elements. Infrared filter over the RGB filter. The underlying sensor is still "monochrome", the sensor elements are still sensitive to the full spectrum of silicon, roughly near-UV (3500A or so) to near Infrared (11,000A or so). Some vary this, use four different colors- 2 shades of green, red, blue usually. End result is still the same: sensors with Mosaic filters interpolate the image from each color-plane. A Bayer filter is the optimal pattern for interpolation using RGB Mosaic filters over square pixels.

This image is with an early DSLR, circa 1993. Monochrome Infrared, using an R60 (red) filter. Basically, a sensor in it's "natural state" and using filters as you would black and white film.

 

[Studio7Four]

With some cameras it doesn't matter. I can set a black and white style on mine, and if I shoot in raw format, though the camera lcd shows the image in B&W the raw file is the same as shooting in colour.

That's the key point - you need to be shooting in RAW to keep the color info. For the record, this is what I often do when I know going into a shoot that I want a B&W result. The monochrome jpeg which gets displayed is a quick reference (I don't shoot B&W often enough to have an intuitive grasp of how different colors in the frame will translate to shades of gray), but I still do the final conversion myself from the RAW file. If the OP only records the jpegs, color is the way to go.

 

[jwbryson1]

Okay, so what's the best way to convert to monochrome from color? Silver EfX software is no longer available.

Think LR4 is okay to convert to B&W?

 

[Light Guru]

Silver EfX software is no longer available.

What makes you think it is no longer available?

The World's Leading Black and White Software
Simply click the "Buy Now" button!

 

[KmH]

The Foveon sensor records color: light passing through the layers of Silicon in the sensor get absorbed at different depths. .

The Foveon image sensor also only records luminosity and also requires color interpolation using software algorithms after the pixel voltages are converted from analog to digital.

Red penetrates silicon the most and blue penetrates silicon the least. So in a Foveon image sensor a there are 2 other pixels above the red layer pixels. Those pixels absorb some of the liminosity that can penetrate deeper into the image sensor.
Consequently and in simplified terms, the top layer of a Foveon sensor records the luminosity produced by all the colors in a scene, the middle layer records the luminosity produced by all the colors except blue, and the bottom layer records the luminosity produced by just red light.

Of course, it's even more complex than that, because real colors are seldom 'pure' red, green, or blue, Consequently the luminosity produced by some colors penetrates to an area in between the 3 layers of pixels.

Foveon X3 sensor - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
In fact, the attributes of each output pixel that are reported by a camera using this sensor result from the camera's image processing algorithms that employ a matrix process to construct the single RGB color from the data sensed by the photodiode stack...
......Because the depth in the silicon wafer of each of the three layer Foveon X3 sensors is less than five micrometres, it has negligible effect onfocusing or chromatic aberration. However, because the collection depth of the deepest sensor layer (red) is comparable to collection depths in other silicon CMOS and CCD sensors, some diffusion of electrons and loss of sharpness in the longer wavelengths occurs.

 

[brian_f2.8]

I like to shoot black n white because I pretend my Nikon is a Leica M9(haha). Anyways, When I shoot bw, I also adjust the filter settings on my camera. I do this because it helps me understand what is going on rather than what aperture can do. It makes me think more and become more involved when taking pictures. Yes more ability and more information when shooting color. It all depends on what your goal is. Always give n takes.

Anyone have a problem shooting in bw in raw, then in Aperture, it converts the image to color? Any way to avoid this?

 

[Helen B]

Anyone have a problem shooting in bw in raw, then in Aperture, it converts the image to color? Any way to avoid this?

The B&W setting on your camera does not usually affect the raw file, it only affects the JPEG.

If you use a Foveon sensor, the best time to convert is at the raw conversion stage: ie the raw camera data is converted directly to B&W, without going via color. This is possible because the raw file contains three channels of colour information for every pixel. Sigma SPP, their raw conversion software, is due to have this feature soon; Iridient Developer (was Raw Developer) has it now.

Cameras with Bayer sensors (almost always RGBG) usually need to have some colour interpolation done before B&W conversion takes place, because the raw file only contains the information for one colour channel per pixel - whichever filter is over the sensel that originates the pixel. Therefore each pixel needs to have the other two colour channels added before there are three channels per pixel. You couldn't simply take the luminosity recorded for each pixel.

 

[TCampbell]

Anyone have a problem shooting in bw in raw, then in Aperture, it converts the image to color? Any way to avoid this?

The point of RAW is that the camera is supposed to save the image without altering it in any way that would result in a loss of data. That means your RAW images are always saved as color (the B&W option is only applied to JPEGs).

Since you use Aperture, it's better to let Aperture handle the B&W conversion anyway. Aperture will let you control how the colors are interpreted for B&W conversion.

If you shoot with true B&W film but you put a blue color filter on the lens, you'll still get a black & white photo, but it will look different than it would look if you had no filter on at all... or if you used a different color (e.g. red) rather than blue.

The filters change how certain color combinations will appear when next to each other in black & white -- the contrast will change.

If you pick a photo in Aperture and look at the "Effects" pull down (in the adjustments tab just below the histogram at the top) you'll find the B&W submenu has quite a number of different B&W conversions and each one previews a different look. You can compare, for example, a red filter, vs. orange, yellow, green, blue, etc. I always prefer to do the conversion after-the-fact (on the computer) because I like to preview the filters to find the one that provides the best contrast for my B&W conversion. If I were to shoot in B&W and save to JPEG in the camera, then the conversion would be done and the original color data would be discarded. I would have no option to change how the conversion happens if, for example, one color filter would have looked better than another.

 

[BrianV]

Okay, so what's the best way to convert to monochrome from color? Silver EfX software is no longer available.

Think LR4 is okay to convert to B&W?

I just installed Silver Efex this week. It looks easy to use, click on the "color" filter that you want to emulate. Works with LR4 just fine.

 

[gsgary]

It's interesting to see that a number of manufacturers have started producing sensors in Monochrome again. There is a new 4/3 format sensor available in monochrome, and CMOSIS has a 35mm format sensor available in color and monochrome, and NOT the one in the Leica M type 240. There are advantages to a dedicated monochrome camera. It will be interesting to see if others come onto the market.

Some say the M8 is a great camera for B+W, i'm thinking about one

 

[BrianV]

I'll try some color conversions on my M8 DNG files, post some up. I'll try some comparisons with the Monochrom when the weather is better. Hurry up Spring!

The M8 images are "crisper" than the M9, owing to the thinner IR absorbing glass. The red response of the M8 is lower than the M9. I've read several people state the M8 is better for color conversion than the M9.

 

[DiskoJoe]

Unless your sensor actually shoots in b&w then there would really be no point to doing it in camera except to be able to see it on the spot from the preview.

 

[BrianV]

The Foveon sensor records color: light passing through the layers of Silicon in the sensor get absorbed at different depths. .

The Foveon image sensor also only records luminosity and also requires color interpolation using software algorithms after the pixel voltages are converted from analog to digital.

Red penetrates silicon the most and blue penetrates silicon the least. So in a Foveon image sensor a there are 2 other pixels above the red layer pixels. Those pixels absorb some of the liminosity that can penetrate deeper into the image sensor.
Consequently and in simplified terms, the top layer of a Foveon sensor records the luminosity produced by all the colors in a scene, the middle layer records the luminosity produced by all the colors except blue, and the bottom layer records the luminosity produced by just red light.

Of course, it's even more complex than that, because real colors are seldom 'pure' red, green, or blue, Consequently the luminosity produced by some colors penetrates to an area in between the 3 layers of pixels.

Foveon X3 sensor - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
In fact, the attributes of each output pixel that are reported by a camera using this sensor result from the camera's image processing algorithms that employ a matrix process to construct the single RGB color from the data sensed by the photodiode stack...
......Because the depth in the silicon wafer of each of the three layer Foveon X3 sensors is less than five micrometres, it has negligible effect onfocusing or chromatic aberration. However, because the collection depth of the deepest sensor layer (red) is comparable to collection depths in other silicon CMOS and CCD sensors, some diffusion of electrons and loss of sharpness in the longer wavelengths occurs.

The Foveon sensor records color information, does not require spatial interpolation associated with mosaic filters. No need for low-pass filters. Software is required to convert to an RGB color-space. For a truly bizarre method of recording color, look up how the rods and cones of the eye work. It will make a software engineer's head hurt.

 

[STM]

Your camera will not "shoot" in B&W, it will render the image in color. If you select "monochrome" the camera's software will convert it into grayscale. But if you do, the image is saved on the card in grayscale, you cannot undo it. Personally I shoot everything in color and then if I want to convert it to grayscale, I can do it in Photoshop. The thing is, though, if I really want the image in black and white I am going to be shooting it on B&W film with the Hasselblad or F4s.

 

[Patriot]

Your camera will not "shoot" in B&W, it will render the image in color. If you select "monochrome" the camera's software will convert it into grayscale. But if you do, the image is saved on the card in grayscale, you cannot undo it.

When shooting JPEG or any other compressed format then yes this is true, but not RAW.