Shooting in Artificial Light - Need Feedback

Saddlebreds4me · Nov 1, 2008

Hi,

I was wondering if I could get some feedback from those of you who have shot in artificial light. My subjects of preference are horses in horse shows. Unfortunately most of the shows are held at indoor facilities which present challenges if you are not the photographer in the middle of the ring (which I most definitely am not!). That leaves me shooting "over the rail" with NO flash - out of courtesy to the horses and riders in the ring - a flash in the ring most of our horses are used to but if it's coming at them from an area they are not expecting (on the side, or in the stands) they could spook and I certainly don't want that.

This photo was taken over the rail in some pretty bad light, obviously indoors. I do realize that the rider is slightly out of focus, but I do love the expression on the horse's face!

Any suggestions on improvement on shooting in very unnatural light without a flash? I did just purchase a Nikkor f/2.8 80-200mm lens which I am hoping will help.

Thanks for any help!

kundalini · Nov 1, 2008

The horse has got that $hit scared look in its eye and the stream of drool is perfect. Shame about the rider. You may need to stop down your aperture to get both horse and rider in focus. Really, one is not complete without the other. Otherwise, a decent shot.

Try PM'ing Jon the Elder. He shoots horses and could probably help you a lot. Seefutlung may be another option. There is another.......mmmm...... maybe Sweetsomedays (maybe). I'm sure there are more members, but they come to mind.

Saddlebreds4me · Nov 1, 2008

kundalini -

Thanks much for your critique - I will try dropping the aperture down the next time I am in that particular venue - I can't tell you how hard it is for a newbie like me to get anything decent in that arena.

I will see if I can reach out to Jon the Elder and the others you mentioned to see if they have some tips for me as well.

In the Saddlebred world, we love that eye popping look (it's why I love to shoot them too!) - it's more excitement rather than fear - this horse is an angel and loves his boy rider.

kundalini · Nov 1, 2008

My sister and her husband showed Tennesse Walkers for quite a few years. I know the look of excitement, but it's a matter of milliseconds to get the eyes right.

Another thought, since you have two SB's, is it possible to "enlist the support" of two assistants, have them stragically placed and fire the strobes? They could be 30 feet away and still benefit your exposure. BTW, does the D70 have Commander mode? If not, triggers would be required.

Saddlebreds4me · Nov 1, 2008

Yes, it is helpful to have assistants at the barn to get that look (I run into that indoor arena thing again regarding light!) But yes, there is entertainment and some of my better shots are with that "go forward, show horse look" - and you are dead on about milliseconds and capturing that look - sclera and all!

I don't see a command mode on my D70S but I am being honest in saying that there are probably a lot of thing my camera has that I don't know about. This is why I am going to "Nikon School" in January!

That's cool that you know the look I am trying to capture as TWH can also have that look as well!

kundalini · Nov 1, 2008

It's actually COMMANDER mode, which allows you to fire the SB's wirelessly. Surely you are aware of that. The first reference I saw from the manual was on page 94 and you do have the capability. You might want to read up on it. It is 'kin awesome. I have both stobes as well, and it is extremely rare that I mount one on the hot shoe. The Nikon CLS system is pretty slick, but I generally push the flashes out on manual and control their output via the camera's menu.

My sister isn't showing her horses anymore, but I still want to get out there and have a go with a shoot.

Saddlebreds4me · Nov 1, 2008

Ok I say with my tail between my legs - I do have commander mode! I supposed this why I reside in the Beginner forum!

I did know I could fire the flash wirelessly, I just didn't know how to do it.

I've never even looked at using it - It seemed over my head when I got my camera - now that I am getting used to it, I think it's time to expand my horizons!

Get back out to your sister's barn if you can - Horses and their people make some of the best subjects! JMO!

kundalini · Nov 1, 2008

:lmao:

You have two fantastic flashes at hand (personally I prefer the SB-800) but both will open up your photo experience more than you know right now. I set one on Group A and the other on Group B. That way I can control their output independently. In the Commander menu, set your on-board flash to (--). That allows you to trigger the other flashes but the on-board does not contribute to the scene..... only triggers the SB's with a pre-flash. Set them both to the same channel though.

For use of all things flash, check out strobist.com. Go through the Strobist 101 tutorial. I think they also have a group on Flickr.com for more discussions.

Truth be told, I love my sister, but I loath her husband. Thus the difficulty.

Saddlebreds4me · Nov 1, 2008

You just have to get out there and shoot the horses and your sister - some head shots of both would be great! When her DH is on a business trip or something!

Honestly, I learn better by someone showing me vs. reading a manual - I would be happy to pay someone to help me - so where do you live? LOL!

Thanks for the help on the flash and sites to check them out. I know I've got some decent equipment and so much of it's a guessing game for me now. I know I need some major instruction.

benhasajeep · Nov 1, 2008

If that shot is done with your 18-70 at 70mm. Your 80-200 is going to allow you to gain about 1 1/3 stops more aperature for same shutter speed. If it was the 70-300 at around 300 your going to get 2 full stops more aperature latitude. It looks like the camera may already be at a higher ISO setting, so not sure you can get another stop there. The horse looks pretty sharp. You may be able to come down a shutter setting as well to get a little more aperature. With new lens and maybe 1 slower shutter setting, you might gain 3 aperature settings which will probably put her in sharp focus with the horse and no flash to spook. Depends on lens zoom and your distance on what is in sharp focus for each aperature setting.

Are you making adjustment or you letting the camera choose?

kundalini · Nov 1, 2008

I'm due South of you dude. Apparently one of the battle states at the moment, but let's not go there. :lol:

Hey, I'm not a guru on these matters, but I do know a little. As far as lighting is concerned, you would do yorself a favor by checking out people like Sw1tchFX, Village Idiot, Big Mike, JerryPH and quite a few others here on TPF.

What I do know is that with a bit of practice, time and patience, your set up can produce some amazing results.

Yeah, I'm trying to get up with my sister without the other half. It's a touchy situation.

v8toytruck · Nov 1, 2008

No flash, low light, fast moving subject...

You need to get yourself a monopod

Saddlebreds4me · Nov 2, 2008

Thank you ALL for helping me out on what for me can be a frustrating situation! I will most definitely check out the websites and with the other members suggested on the board.

benhasajeep - I am, for the most part letting my camera pick the settings although I do play around with the ISO setting. That shot I believe was done with my 70-300mm lens.

Thanks again!

benhasajeep · Nov 2, 2008

Ok, I am not sure how much you know about cameras. To get the rider and horse in sharp focus. You need a smaller aperature (larger number on the camera). Now since you were in auto mode, and it was low light. I am just guessing the camera set the aperature close to its fastest setting to provide a fast enough shutter speed for the lens you have mounted.

Your new lens will help light wise. It is 2 stops (settings) faster than your 70-300 when zoomed in on subject. Now you can bring more of the picture in focus without changing any settings. And that is by backing up. Instead of shooting at the rail back up into the stands. Now the horse and rider will not fill as much of the frame but more of it will be in focus. You can always enlarge and crop in photo program. Going by the picture to me it looks like the iso was up pretty high.

What I suggest is you use your new 80-200 lens. And learn / practice with aperature priority mode. This mode you select the aperature and the camera will then set the shutter. Since the lens is 2 stops faster, I suggest you bring down the ISO 1 setting. And change the aperature 1 setting (higher f#). This will give you a clearer (noise wise) and sharper (focus depth) than now. Add that with backing up, you will get a much better picture with more in focus and no flashes to possible spook the horse.

What I suggest is some reading on exposure. Learn about ISO setting, shutter settings, and aperature settings and their relationship to each other. Once you get a good handle on that, you will better know which setting you can adjust to get the results needed. I believe with your new lens I am sure you can get better pictures without need for flash and chance of spooking the horse.

I have not read this entire link but just looking over it. I think it may give you a good idea of what I am talking about.

http://www.mir.com.my/rb/photography/fototech/apershutter/exposure.htm

Saddlebreds4me · Nov 2, 2008

benhasajeep -

That totally makes sense and yes I know I am in need of some really basic schooling.

But what you are saying regarding my new lens does make sense to me. I am headed to a winter tournament show right now, I will see what I can do and hopefully come out with something better technically.

Thanks for taking the time to explain all of that - as soon as I get back I am going to print it out and reread it.

It is much appreciated.