I appreciate you taking the time to give a long detailed response. Your experience and advice is very useful. I am not so sure I will miss that speed on the zoom end, if I go with either Sigmas over the 16-85. In specific instances, I think I will miss the extra 20mm zoom from the 17-50 to the 17-70, and I would also miss that extra 15mm if I went with the 70 instead of the 85. I find myself shooting on the wide end mostly, so that is why the 16 is appealing again, even though I lost 2/3 stop compared to the Sigmas. I do have a 10-24, but I don't like to change lenses a lot, or carry around a bag with extra lenses when I am out just tooling around. Most of the time this lens will be used in the day, and if it will be used in low light I will have a tripod and would probably be shooting at smaller apertures anyway....as you write we each have different needs. So, I think I am talking myself into the 16-85, especially since I am just running from $100 by considering the 17-70 and would sacrifice what I really want......wider range. For the 17-50, I am even sacrificing even more range for the same cost, only to gain speed I don't think I will need. Going with the Nikon negates any present or future quality issues with the Sigmas as well, even though I am at the point now that this is not an issue after reading about it some more. I want to take your advice and consider this awhile longer before I buy, though. The 16-85 is on sale for another week I think, and I plan to go to the shop next week and check out each of these lenses before I do anything. Again I appreciate your reply. Take care.