Sitting fees for Dance Studio

[painterskip]

I searched the archives and found a very old post, but my question may be a bit different than asking about whether to charge a 'sitting fee'. (or not)

I'll be shooting at a dance studio soon. This will be my second year. Last year I charged a $10.00 sitting fee that entitled the customer to a 'free' 4x6 group photo. This year, I'm wondering whether I should do this a bit differently.
Several of the dancers either take multiple classes or are 'on company', meaning that they dance in multiple dancers or routines. Therefore, multiple costumes.

My question is this; would you suggest charging multiple sitting fees for those that want photos taken in more than one costume? Some dancers are in as many as nine routines. So last year I went ahead and shot photos of the dancers in ALL of their costumes.

Seems to me I should charge extra for extra service. Anyone have a similar experience?

Thanks in advance.

 

[tirediron]

$10 AND a free print?????? Unless you're selling a LOT of individual prints at a fantastic margin... I would definitely charge a sessuib fee for each costume change, but offer either a discount after 'X' sittings or on prints, as even at $10, you're likely to get people who will balk at the price.

 

[hirejn]

Speaking from experience, pros usually charge a creation fee that covers their time and costs for the shoot and post processing, to be paid in full before any images, including previews, are delivered. Everyone has a different way of calculating the fee so nobody can tell you what to charge. I can say that for $10 you might as well pay the dancers to come to you. You're losing money on that. You should take some time to think about your costs and time and the terms of the shoot. Labor alone is worth more than $10 per hour. You also have to price the quality of your images. If they're average, you can't ask what pros are asking. Put your terms into a contract and have the clients and you sign it. This is the business way of doing it.

I would schedule the dancers individually and charge the sitting fee for each for a certain amount of time and guarantee them a certain number of costume changes. Look at it this way: If you allow them three changes per hour and they have nine costumes, you can book three consecutive hours for each dancer. There's no need to schedule each change separately; what would be the point? As long as they're paying your rate, they should be able to book as many hours as they need. A group shot could be scheduled separately. Electing to take on the entire crew at one time individually could be an unnecessary challenge and would likely take several hours of your time.

 

[painterskip]

I should have mentioned that last year, I took pics of about 70 dancers over two evenings, at the dance studio. Maybe 50 paid the sitting fee even though last year it was supposed to be mandatory.

This year I want to make it optional. If you don't pay the sitting fee, I don't shoot individual shots of the dancer. I believe that there are about 85 dancers this year and I would guess that maybe 60 will pay the sitting fee and also order photos, based on last years sales.

So it's not like a regular portrait session that goes somewhat slow and easy....this is all done very quickly. I think I shot almost 3000 photos in two nights. This year, even though there will be more prospective clients, I doubt I take that many. I shoot kinda like a fashion shoot.

I have read elsewhere (and maybe here), that dance studio photo shoots are NOT big money makers and you have to price first according to the area and also keeping in mind that by the time we do the photo shoot, many of the parents are tapped out and really don't want to think about paying another dime for anything dance related (I know...I'm one of those parents)

Here's a link to some of my photos. The few dance photos you see are from last year and mostly are of my daughter and her dance instructor. So the dance photos are sort of 'out takes' if you will. I password protect the other galleries because that's what most of the parents prefer. And it's also the way most other dance photographers seem to operate.
I was simply hoping that maybe someone here has tried charging a variable rate sitting fee in this situation.

Here's the link....
painterskip's Photos : Portfolio

 

[painterskip]

$10 AND a free print?????? Unless you're selling a LOT of individual prints at a fantastic margin... I would definitely charge a sessuib fee for each costume change, but offer either a discount after 'X' sittings or on prints, as even at $10, you're likely to get people who will balk at the price.

I also forgot to mention that when I did this last year, I gave 4x6s as the free print and had them made in a local pro lab. It was in a Ritz camera store but they are now gone, so I'm stuck with SmugMug. But those 4x6s cost me only 24 cents each.

 

[KmH]

This is essentially just like shooting youth sports T&I (Team and Individual).
You might use that as a search term.

Each routine is like a different team.

 

[painterskip]

This is essentially just like shooting youth sports T&I (Team and Individual).

You might use that as a search term.

Good point...I'll try that. Thanks.
Oh...except that with sports teams, the subject usually has only one uniform....for one team. Dance is different. Even from say...cheer leading. Dancers typically have more than one costume. For instance, my daughter is in 9 different routines. As are other dancers.

So back to my original question....has anyone tried 'upcharging' for multiple costume changes. (another way of phrasing the question).

 

[CCericola]

When I shot dance schools I did a prepay. Packages ranged from $10 - $50. Students with multiple costumes had to buy a package per consume. We shot 1 pose per costume and we chose the best picture. Much like youth sports. We made tons of money from large schools and like school pictures, the school got a percentage of sales as a fundraiser.

It seems like you are offering g more of a studio experience. $10 for a group photo would be on par with what we charged. Since you said photos are not mandatory I don't see anything wrong with upping your prices. It sounds like you gave them a really good deal last year. The people that really appreciate the professional pictures will still buy and the cheap parents may not show up. But in the end, the people that do buy will make up for the cheapskates.

 

[KmH]

We made tons of money from large schools and like school pictures, the school got a percentage of sales as a fundraiser.

.

In many types of business, giving kickbacks gets people unemployed, or worse - sent to jail. Many local and state governments prohibit the practice.

Be sure you know what is, or isn't, legal/considered ethical where you do business.

 

[painterskip]

Thanks for all the replies, so far.
Yes...I probably gave the parent too good of a deal last year. It worked though. Would have been better had I not had to do so much post production..but that was my fault and it won't happen again.

As for feeding something back to the studio. Since my daughter dances there, we barter. I do their web site, graphic design, recital programs, photos and even props

 

[Granddad]

You have some nice dance shots on your site, I like your poses and the fact that you've made them fun.
I do a lot of dance photography, live and studio, because my wife's hobby is dance, thus that's where our contact base is. My dance shoots are adult (as in over 18, some as old as 65) dancers so it's not quite the same but I've put together a package where I'll take my studio anywhere within a 2 or three hour drive, set up in a hired community hall and shoot about six ladies during the day. I suggest to them that they pair up for 2 people in a 2 hour session, that way we don't have down time while they change costumes and makeup. It seems to work. I charge a day rate plus expenses (venue hire, fuel and sometimes including a motel) divided by the number of dancers. What I charge isn't really relevant to you as I'm in the UK but it mostly works out to be cheaper for them to have me come to them than for them to come to me, plus they save the time.

I include 12 processed digital images with a license for them to use for personal promotional purposes.

One comment on the photos, I'm a bit OCD about white backgrounds, if I have loose folds or wrinkles (a common problem as the cotton backgrounds wrinkle in transport) I run over them with a dodge brush at the back; nowadays I make sure to leave some "reality" for them to stand on as it keeps the image grounded. :thumbup:

 

[painterskip]

Hey

Thanks for the kind words and info re your experiences. Those photos you viewed in my gallery that were sort of my out takes and I'm really glad that I kept shooting, because I feel that they were the more interesting images. Sure...it's nice to have pics of the dancers in their poses, but these made people laugh...and me

As for the white background. Ugh....I used two Alien Bees with big soft boxes and the background was only 10x20 off-white muslin. With too many wrinkles. So I did what you said you do....Photoshop to the rescue. Except that I really screwed up about half the shots and under exposed them. I obviously was NOT paying attention....hopefully won't do THAT again. So for some of the photos, I had way too much editing to do.

This year I'm trying a dark grey paper background. For some reason the studio owner didn't like the white as much. I loved it, except for the editing.

 

[CCericola]

In many types of business, giving kickbacks gets people unemployed, or worse - sent to jail. Many local and state governments prohibit the practice.

Be sure you know what is, or isn't, legal/considered ethical where you do business.

You're funny. No it is not illegal. Just as it is not illegal for the marching band to sell candy or the football team to sell pizza kits or the Girl Scouts to sell cookies. I'm not going to argue this with you because if you knew anything about school photography you would not have responded as you did.

 

[tirediron]

We made tons of money from large schools and like school pictures, the school got a percentage of sales as a fundraiser.

.

In many types of business, giving kickbacks gets people unemployed, or worse - sent to jail. Many local and state governments prohibit the practice.

Be sure you know what is, or isn't, legal/considered ethical where you do business.

I think you're mis-understanding Keith; this isn't a kick-back (unless I'm mis-understanding), rather this is a fee/surcharge that the school administrators demand of anyone transacting business on school property. School pictures, team souvenirs, lunch-wagon... it's basically the business-person's cost of doing business and getting access to "captive clients" since it usually comes with some degree of exclusivity. At least that's the way it works in BC.

 

[GerryDavid]

You only mention what you charge for a sitting, but not what you charged for packages?

I found storyboards and albums were popular with those that could afford quality items.

I did a dance studio a couple of times and gymnastics a few times. One thing I learned is if the owners are happy, get a signed contract for the next few years. After working with one gym one of the instructors decided since she has a nice camera she can do it. I was still allowed to do it but since she was doing it only a couple signed with me. She didnt even use strobes, but anyways.

I didnt charge a sitting fee, only packages. I charged something like $25 for one print, $40 for three, etc. This is way below my regular pricing and it wouldnt have been worth while but the sales were usually pretty good and the amount of work involved wasnt that much and it was scheduled in a slow part of the year not to interfere with regular paying customers. I would prefer to charge my usual $150 for three gift prints but no one there would pay that they were complaining the special pricing they had was "expensive".