Some black and white tinkering

[Ysarex]

Sorry, I missed that part. Usually center weighted.

What is the intent of your query, and how does it relate to my comments?

I've encountered many camera users over the years who make the same claim as you did that they shoot in manual to avoid letting the camera make decisions; "the camera keeps making decisions, even some of the decisions, that's an automatic mode." Then upon further investigation it comes out that they have a Nikon and use its matrix metering, or in your case a Panny G7 and its multiple metering. As such they are relying on the camera's auto programing and are in fact allowing the camera more control over decisions about exposure than they think occurs using a semi-auto mode in which matrix style metering is avoided.

You said in your second response, "There's nothing wrong with shooting in any of the modes and that's not the intent of my comment." So I'm not completely buying that given your earlier comments. Your first statement that you don't understand why people with expensive cameras.... could be that you really don't understand but not when you immediately say, "I admit to having fallen off that cliff previously...." Falling off a cliff is bad. Then you say, "I salute your efforts to shut off auto..." Again not really a neutral observation.

So I'm going with you're trying to say that in any of the camera's auto modes the camera is taking control away from the photographer, in your words, "the camera keeps making decisions..." and that in manual you gain control and there is a judgment value there -- manual is better. That's the whole foundation of your first "I don't understand..." comment.

But you're using the meter in the camera and setting the shutter and f/stop based on the result you get from the camera meter. In which case you have not an iota more control over your camera in manual than I do over my camera in Program mode. If I for example were to follow your challenge and take my camera off auto I would in fact lose some of the precision control I have now and so would a whole lot of other photographers. In many cameras today switching to full manual shuts off full access to the camera's capabilities and throttles back what the user can do -- in other words less control not more.

Joe

 

[Derrel]

Sorry, I missed that part. Usually center weighted.

What is the intent of your query, and how does it relate to my comments?

I've encountered many camera users over the years who make the same claim as you did that they shoot in manual to avoid letting the camera make decisions; "the camera keeps making decisions, even some of the decisions, that's an automatic mode." Then upon further investigation it comes out that they have a Nikon and use its matrix metering, or in your case a Panny G7 and its multiple metering. As such they are relying on the camera's auto programing and are in fact allowing the camera more control over decisions about exposure than they think occurs using a semi-auto mode in which matrix style metering is avoided.

You said in your second response, "There's nothing wrong with shooting in any of the modes and that's not the intent of my comment." So I'm not completely buying that given your earlier comments. Your first statement that you don't understand why people with expensive cameras.... could be that you really don't understand but not when you immediately say, "I admit to having fallen off that cliff previously...." Falling off a cliff is bad. Then you say, "I salute your efforts to shut off auto..." Again not really a neutral observation.

So I'm going with you're trying to say that in any of the camera's auto modes the camera is taking control away from the photographer, in your words, "the camera keeps making decisions..." and that in manual you gain control and there is a judgment value there -- manual is better. That's the whole foundation of your first "I don't understand..." comment.

But you're using the meter in the camera and setting the shutter and f/stop based on the result you get from the camera meter. In which case you have not an iota more control over your camera in manual than I do over my camera in Program mode. If I for example were to follow your challenge and take my camera off auto I would in fact lose some of the precision control I have now and so would a whole lot of other photographers. In many cameras today switching to full manual shuts off full access to the camera's capabilities and throttles back what the user can do -- in other words less control not more.

Joe

When logic rears its ugly head...

 

[DigiFilm]

You went an awful long distance reading things into my words.

So I'm not completely buying that given your earlier comments. Your first statement that you don't understand why people with expensive cameras.... could be that you really don't understand but not when you immediately say, "I admit to having fallen off that cliff previously...." Falling off a cliff is bad. Then you say, "I salute your efforts to shut off auto..." Again not really a neutral observation.

There are four separate assumptions in that one paragraph.

I suspect the truth is that you take exception to my referring to your chosen mode as an automated setting, and you're gonna' larn me a thing 'er two. And then you go on to assert that even shooting in manual is automatic because...why again? I use the light meter built into the camera?

Then you say

So I'm going with you're trying to say that in any of the camera's auto modes the camera is taking control away from the photographer, in your words, "the camera keeps making decisions..."

completely discounting the first part of that sentence, which was that if someone is learning how to set up the camera for specific situations and the camera keeps making decisions...

But that's ok, you win. I'm set down a notch and you've put me in my place. Well done.

 

[Ysarex]

You went an awful long distance reading things into my words.

So I'm not completely buying that given your earlier comments. Your first statement that you don't understand why people with expensive cameras.... could be that you really don't understand but not when you immediately say, "I admit to having fallen off that cliff previously...." Falling off a cliff is bad. Then you say, "I salute your efforts to shut off auto..." Again not really a neutral observation.

There are four separate assumptions in that one paragraph.

I suspect the truth is that you take exception to my referring to your chosen mode as an automated setting, and you're gonna' larn me a thing 'er two. And then you go on to assert that even shooting in manual is automatic because...why again? I use the light meter built into the camera?

Then you say

So I'm going with you're trying to say that in any of the camera's auto modes the camera is taking control away from the photographer, in your words, "the camera keeps making decisions..."

completely discounting the first part of that sentence, which was that if someone is learning how to set up the camera for specific situations and the camera keeps making decisions...

But that's ok, you win. I'm set down a notch and you've put me in my place. Well done.

I'm not trying to be combative or disrespectful. What should I assume from "larn me a thing 'er two" and I'm sorry if you think that conditional clause I didn't include when I quoted you is really important, but you on the other hand are claiming I said things I did not.

I think it's fair to say that you were advocating using manual as better than using auto -- as the right or better way. I got that from your posts: "I salute your efforts to shut off auto...." Come on, that's not advocacy?

I have to struggle with this constantly and it causes me considerable trouble. I teach photography right now to college students and every semester I get a new crop of students who come to class cameras in hand and many of them are set to manual. I ask them why and they tell me because manual is better. I ask them where did they get that idea and they tell me they were told that or they read that or they saw it on Youtube, etc. So right now in 2019 I still get that constantly from new students. It takes me a long time to undo all the misinformation they get from Youtube etc. And I'm in the middle of dealing with that right now. So I'm sensitive to the issue.

Joe

 

[markjwyatt]

When I shoot film, it is always fully manual, and I like it that way, plus I have no choice as my cameras are all fully manual (and I like it that way). On the other hand with the digital I get a little lazy and shoot some type of auto, but I always use a visual check as my final decision on exposure. The laziness comes in because I can move the camera up and down towards the sky (during the day) and find the sweet spot (foreground generally slightly underexposed so as to not clip the clouds- shoot RAW so I can bring up the foreground in post), lock exposure and/or focus, frame, then shoot. Sometimes I may add/subtract a bit on the exposure dial (+/-) and reshoot. I try and keep track of aperture, shutter speed and [in low light] ISO settings and may take over if required. The laziness also means sometimes I miss something, get a good shot anyways, because I saw the final result (and I am pretty good at judging from the evf at this point), but may not have been optimal (perhaps too large an aperture for instance is the main problem). I am shooting a Fujifilm XT-2 usually with the Fujinon 18-55mm zoom.

 

[Grandpa Ron]

I believe a lot of folk buy a decent camera because the like the pictures they take. They may vaguely understand shutter and aperture and turn the dial to the proper position for sports or night exposures. However, lets face it the Auto functions work very well these days.

But I am a tinkerer and I like to see what the camera is doing and what I can make it do. I often remind folks that a bad photo is only the delete button away. I would say that unless it is just a vacation "snap shot", I usually shot with aperture priority.