Some Thoughts and Warnings for Beginners...

[manaheim]

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[The_Traveler]

This Stuff is Mostly Personal Preference
The frequency with which sameness is encouraged is scary, and damaging to photography, in my opinion. Fortunately, my work sucked initially, so I didn't have to worry about this. I still don't, for the most part.

To the veteran members: I would encourage you to offer your input as "the book would say to do it this way" instead of saying "you did it wrong". Stop promoting sameness, and in many ways, mediocrity. As it becomes easier and easier to create properly exposed photos, vision matters more and more. Let people develop theirs without shooting them down from the get-go.

There are two issues here.
People at all levels of experience give c/c and those who are just learning how to do photography latch on, as Amolitar said, to the last thing they learned and use that as a hammer on any nail, appropriate or not.
I think that most of what I see 'veterans' say and remark about myself is not driving people towards sameness but suggesting that people know how to do what they want technically correctly before they try to become 'artists.'

You find very few fine woodworkers using their screwdrivers as chisels because they know their tools.
I think it's the same thing in photography.
Once the photographer has the tools - and that include a sense of composition - then he or she can do whatever he wishes, however he/she wishes.

To be honest there are painfully few photographers here who are posting creatively; moist are striving to just get the basics down.

On the 'veterans' posting: I am older so that makes me a veteran but I don't post much because I don't need what I would get here. My pictures are what I want them to be. When I do post, it's to 'pay my dues.'

On being unfairly criticized

I agree. I always get crapped on for my photos not being by the technical correctness, because i have more of an artsy style. Well frankly it makes me not want to share my work on here. And i left another forum because of how much they hated my photos.

Your pictures, not you, get what you asked for - critique. When people point out what they see as technical and artistic failure, you defend that as being your style or because the light is some special way in Alaska or something else.

Well i like it despite of the lighting. I cant control where lighting is coming from if im taking a picture from a top looking down, it was in the shade as well.

You can control the exposure.

That doesn't have anything to do with half of his face being lighter than the other half. Its because he was looking up and there is no way to back light someones face when they are looking up at the sky and the sun is comming from the south...

Its over exposed on purpose because that is how i like it. I dont use fill flash because i want my subjects back lit and over exposed with natural light. This picture just happened to be one of those case where the light had to be comming from the side. However i still made sure it was shaded so as not to have a major difference in lighting.

I think that teh OP, if he feels things are being done incorrectly, should do his best to set an example for the rest of us.

 

[unpopular]

Do you guys really feel like you're helping new members? I think this is a serious issue. Several seem to agree. Why make a mockery of it?

I'm making a point! People need not post every single image they produce!

IDK. Maybe it's the fact that you're coming on here, telling people with decades of experience that they don't know how to apply those decades simply because they don't post enough images for your approval.

I don't post my photos in the forum very often simply because I don't often require C&C. I'm happy with the way my photos look because the final version is pretty much what I wanted it to be.

I think this outlines another issue: that most people don't know how to critique images, rather present a laundry list of problems, often sought only for the sake of critique requested.

 

[manaheim]

Stuff being personal preference or not is valid from the perspective of what people like, but doesn't say much about the finer qualities of art.

McDonalds and Friendlys are super popular, and I do enjoy them myself, but they're both pretty much crap. I wouldn't dare present a Filet o Fish as a culinary masterpiece and try to suggest to a five star restaurant chef that he's just being stodgy and unreasonable- this is the new way! And yet... That's exactly what we get here. A lot.

What's even more noteworthy is that's what I used to do here myself. I eventually learned enough to realize how wrong I was. And believe me I'm stubborn, so it wasn't like I was just worn away by the members here.

As far as the older members being grouchy... From where I sit, it's almost always started by the requester... Not the responder. Rarely do I see old older person be anything other than helpful on their response to an OP. Then usually the OP bristles and responds snarkily or defensively and then usually the old folk put them in their place... Usually brusquely but reasonably respectfully. At the end of the day people just generally don't do well with being told "you could do better", no matter how gently it's done.

 

[The_Traveler]

As far as the older members being grouchy... From where I sit, it's almost always started by the requester... Not the responder. Rarely do I see old older person be anything other than helpful on their response to an OP. Then usually the OP bristles and responds snarkily or defensively and then usually the old folk put them in their place... Usually brusquely but reasonably respectfully. At the end of the day people just generally don't do well with being told "you could do better", no matter how gently it's done.

Often new people see TPF as sort of a public school where any kind of smart-mouthing little turd gets to stay because he's alive.
I see it as more like a nice private school where, if the student is well mannered and bright, he or she can get a great education with almost full-time tutors.

 

[unpopular]

^^ nope. not elitist at all.

 

[The_Traveler]

I remember an incident from a few months ago.
A very new member gets on and posts a great many, small images and asked for c/c.

I responded (an approximation) saying that there were so many images that good c/c on all of them wouldn't be likely to occur, that he should post fewer images, that the images should be bigger so we could actually see them and they should be numbered so we could refer to them more easily.

His response (almost exactly) was that he would take it under advisement in the future but I should go ahead and respond to these now.

 

[The_Traveler]

^^ nope. not elitist at all.

If we were, would you be here?

 

[unpopular]

my wife goes to a private school. it's not all that difference from a public school, just more khaki.

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I used to contribute more here. It's kind of a waste of effort.

 

[12sndsgood]

As far as the older members being grouchy... From where I sit, it's almost always started by the requester... Not the responder. Rarely do I see old older person be anything other than helpful on their response to an OP. Then usually the OP bristles and responds snarkily or defensively and then usually the old folk put them in their place... Usually brusquely but reasonably respectfully. At the end of the day people just generally don't do well with being told "you could do better", no matter how gently it's done.

This is what I see the most. someone asks for a criticism or critiuqe. someone replies with something the OP doesn't want to hear and cops an attitude and then the stuff hits the proverbial fan. I have seen tons of posts about starting a business. some people get hammered and some people get a ton of help. its all in how the person asks the questions and how they respond. if someone comes in clueless and then starts complaining. people will let them have it. if someone comes in. asks a good question, one where you know that the poster has put some thought into it and is willing to listen and learn, then they usually get really helpfull responces. I think you get a lot of people that come on here and don't want to hear criticism. They want to hear that they are great and amazing. and when that doesn't happen and people question them on there skill they get mad and throw out cop out answers like it was there artistic vision to underexpose the shot and render it blurry.

 

[ronlane]

I am new here and have posted a few of my pictures. When I posted the first few, I was deflated because of the critism. Honestly, it was hard to swallow. But looking at them and then learning more and thinking, I realized that they were just making a point. It helped me think about that issue for my next round of photos. I haven't forgotten that. They have helped me with exposure, white balance, making sure that the horizon is level and with composition.

My photos have gotten better because of all of this. It still hurts to get critism of work that I think is pretty good, but I realize that they aren't attacking me, just pointing out what I actually asked for.

For all of this, I have messaged a couple of the people for clarificaton and they have become a person that I feel I can trust. They may not like my work but that's okay.

It must be working because the last photos that I posted got a lot of looks but not many comments. That's better than getting slammed. (I'm looking at it positive.)

 

[manaheim]

I am new here and have posted a few of my pictures. When I posted the first few, I was deflated because of the critism. Honestly, it was hard to swallow. But looking at them and then learning more and thinking, I realized that they were just making a point. It helped me think about that issue for my next round of photos. I haven't forgotten that. They have helped me with exposure, white balance, making sure that the horizon is level and with composition.

My photos have gotten better because of all of this. It still hurts to get critism of work that I think is pretty good, but I realize that they aren't attacking me, just pointing out what I actually asked for.

For all of this, I have messaged a couple of the people for clarificaton and they have become a person that I feel I can trust. They may not like my work but that's okay.

It must be working because the last photos that I posted got a lot of looks but not many comments. That's better than getting slammed. (I'm looking at it positive.)

This is an uncommon response to the feedback people get, and it's awesome to see.

I was EXACTLY where you are when I joined here, and I handled it way worse than you are.

 

[manaheim]

my wife goes to a private school. it's not all that difference from a public school, just more khaki.

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I used to contribute more here. It's kind of a waste of effort.

This made me :LOL:. Literally.

 

[Jaemie]

my wife goes to a private school. it's not all that difference from a public school, just more khaki.

Oh and, from now on, I won't be able to help but imagine you're married to a 6th grader. :3

 

[unpopular]

LMFAO. So THAT'S why they all wear kaki!

They never got the memo that they don't need to wear uniforms in college.