sour grapes?

[c.cloudwalker]

Some interesting comments have come in. I totally blocked out the brown leaves because I was looking at the color of the grapes but that's true. Dead brown leaves are no good when they are so central in the image. You should have gone on that job with a pair of scissors

As far as the wine makers language, trust me, I understand you. I live in a country that made grapes and its fermented juice a religion and I'm neither a fan of one or the other

But, as a photographer, it is your job to FULLY understand what is being asked of you. So, when someone says light and fluffy, you need to ask what does that mean exactly... And when some other one says lightness and flavour, ask them to show you examples of that because, most probably, it means it is something they've seen in a photo. And that may not be anything like what you imagine...

My idea of flavour when it comes to grapes is darkness because, although I don't like wine much, I like grapes and the most flavourful ones I've had were dark blue. So dark they were almost black.

Do you get what I'm saying?

There is one more aspect to this however and that is what does anything mean to the average viewer. Neither I nor you nor anybody else here on the forum is average but if you put us all together, we probably are. So you ask your client to show you photos of what he has in mind, then you ask other growers in the area to show you the same thing, and, little by little, you will figure out what they are talking about when they say: "lightness and flavour."

Good luck to you. Photography is not easy but it is a blast.

 

[Tight Knot]

Some interesting comments have come in. I totally blocked out the brown leaves because I was looking at the color of the grapes but that's true. Dead brown leaves are no good when they are so central in the image. You should have gone on that job with a pair of scissors

As far as the wine makers language, trust me, I understand you. I live in a country that made grapes and its fermented juice a religion and I'm neither a fan of one or the other

But, as a photographer, it is your job to FULLY understand what is being asked of you. So, when someone says light and fluffy, you need to ask what does that mean exactly... And when some other one says lightness and flavour, ask them to show you examples of that because, most probably, it means it is something they've seen in a photo. And that may not be anything like what you imagine...

My idea of flavour when it comes to grapes is darkness because, although I don't like wine much, I like grapes and the most flavourful ones I've had were dark blue. So dark they were almost black.

Do you get what I'm saying?

There is one more aspect to this however and that is what does anything mean to the average viewer. Neither I nor you nor anybody else here on the forum is average but if you put us all together, we probably are. So you ask your client to show you photos of what he has in mind, then you ask other growers in the area to show you the same thing, and, little by little, you will figure out what they are talking about when they say: "lightness and flavour."

Good luck to you. Photography is not easy but it is a blast.

Scissors will get put in my camera bag shortly :thumbup:
I hear you about asking for examples, that makes a lot of sense. Once they see these photos, I'm sure they will give me examples if they want something different.

Thanks for the "Good Luck" wishes. You too.

 

[Derrel]

Too much flash or light creating dull, flat,even lighting on the grapes. #4 is by far the best shot of the entire bunch, and is the only image I would buy if I were a stock photo submissions editor. I love grapes. I have photographed them casually, off an on, first in the 1980's, and then later in the 2000's--they present a very challenging subject quite often, due to the flat, shadowed lighting the vines often create, and the depth of field problems often involved.

I hear you loud and clear, it was really challenging trying not to get that flat look. These are best out of +- 50 photos.
I used flash, ring light, and natural light, and each had their own issues. One thing I did not try is off-camera flash from a 45 degree angle to the grapes. that may have given more depth from shadows.
What do you think of Set 1 A? DOF is there, and nice lighting I feel.

Okay, well, based on living with a grape arbor in the back yard in the mid-1980's, and then again later in the 2000's, but both times with GREEN grapes, not purple varieties, here's some thoughts on lighting and pictures of grapes.

First off: grapes are often naturally frosty on the outside; when human hands touch them, or leaves scrape them, they develop streaks in that "frosty outer coating", which sort of subliminally says, "these grapes have been handled"....so...it pays to find a cluster or two that are growing in a place where they have not been touched, and they have a beautiful, almost perfect natural outside to their skins...a tall order sometimes. Along the same lines, grapes are often shielded by much overhead vine-age! PITA!!!

Ring light = dull and uninspiring lighting. Open shade = dull and uninspiring lighting

Have you thought about using an overhead diffusion scrim to take the natural sunlight, and to diffuse it, and then position some BLACK, negative fill cards on the opposite side, to create a slight bit of lighting ratio, like a 2:1 ratio or 2.5:1 or3:1, and then increase the contrast and saturation in post processing? Bracket the exposures, and shoot some over-exposed shots, and experiment with the tone curve a bit. Not sure what camera you have; some cameras make beautiful images if you over-expose in RAW Mode then pull back the highlights. The thing is the "right" exposure shown by the histogram is based upon the in-camera JPEGs you are creating, so the tone curve setting (ie the contrast level--which directly determines how the camera will "develop" the JPEG that the histogram is created from) is very important when using the camera's histogram to determine exposure. If the tone curve is set to HIGH or HARD, the histogram will tend to show over-exposure quite early, when you really could exposure MORE, and still not blow out the exposure if shooting in RAW mode.

Another thought: try using a metalized reflector and an assistant, or a mirror and an assistant, to bounce some direct sunlight in under the leaves, to produce some dappled highlights. This creates a wider dynamic range, which can be tough to bridge on digital, and so, again, you might want to bring in some fill lighting to bring up the shadows, and keep the highlights light and sparkly from the mirror or other small, metallic reflector. In this kind of approach, you are trying to create the feeling of light, airy, sparkly light. So, do not let the white balance be too cool. This is kind of like commercial still-life photography; the way grapes are grown means the lighting in the vineyards or on the trellises is often quite sucky,and needs intervention on the part of the photographer. However, "sometimes" there are places where the natural light is very good, for 35-45 minutes per day, so....f.8 and be there--THEN!!!

 

[GeorgieGirl]

The brown leaves really don't bother me for some reason. To me they are rustic and natural and part of the vine by the time the grapes have formed as they are in these photos. At this point there is going to be one thing or another with the leaves as harvest approaches. I love the colors of all of those leaves. But that's me. :blushing:

 

[kundalini]

thatI I

I would avoid showing dead/dying/brown leaves.

The leaves are there for the contrast. You don't think they help?

If the intent was for the harvest, then I could see that. I was lead to believe from your post that it was more for the he requested photos of grapes showing freshness, lightness, flavour, and good colour.

That was the reason for my comment. I would want to see Life in the grapes.

 

[GeorgieGirl]

Because I nurture my concord grape vine, I can share that these dark grapes start out as little green globes and as they go through their development cycle they mature and develop their rich dark color. This is what concord grapes look like when they start out. Green and little. You can see why the client would has chosen dark grapes...their color when mature is so rich and wonderful.
The vine leaves when the season is still early are fresh and perfect, but are so much more wonderful and colorful as the fruit develops and matures, which was captured in the OP's photos.

 

[Tight Knot]

Hi Derrel,

Thanks for that really lengthy explanation. I will try it out and see what happens.
I have a Canon T1i and I was using the 18-55 kit lens. I will try next time with my 50 1.4 lens and see if I can get the shots sharper. But I really like the idea of the reflector reflecting natural sunlight back under the arbor.

 

[Tight Knot]

Hi GeorgieGirl,
I agree with you whole heartedly for a normal shot, and I may just keep this photo for my personal collection as is, but I also see why Kundalini recommended shooting without the brown leaves in the frame, considering the requests of the client.

 

[Tight Knot]

Makes perfect sense. I was letting my artistic "notions" get in the way of the customers request. Generally not a good idea for customer retention.

 

[Tight Knot]

Because I nurture my concord grape vine, I can share that these dark grapes start out as little green globes and as they go through their development cycle they mature and develop their rich dark color. This is what concord grapes look like when they start out. Green and little. You can see why the client would has chosen dark grapes...their color when mature is so rich and wonderful.
The vine leaves when the season is still early are fresh and perfect, but are so much more wonderful and colorful as the fruit develops and matures, which was captured in the OP's photos.

Thanks :thumbup:!!

 

[untouchednalive]

In my opinion, which might not mean much coming from a noob such as myself, I like 1B, 2A & 4...When it came to the third set I really like A, but think B is more consistent with the droplets all over instead of just by the grapes like in A. Yet i really like #4 over all.....either way I can say I am hungry for some grapes!

 

[paul85224]

I like #4 the best.

They are all pretty grape, therefore, I have nothing to wine about.