Stinkin advisement

[Kodan_Txips]

I wanna look at this from a few different viewpoints.

I think that some of the things one also learns at school and university is how to deal with authority, how to work as a member of a team, how to do individual research.

I think the original poster has perhaps created a rod for his own back, as he has already alienated one of his future tutors. The best thing to do when investigating Uni courses is to listen to the spiel from all the Unis you might go to, then choose the one that suits you. It is almost impossible to change the way a Uni teaches, even from within. (I am speaking as an ex-Uni and F.E. teacher - even the teachers themselves found it VERY hard to get anything changed.)

As to what you should be studying, I don't think it makes a blind bit of difference what you study in a photographic course, so I think you should just grin and bear it. School and Uni aren't there to teach you how things should be done. They are there to teach you how to use your brain so that you can decide how YOU want to do things. THe majority of your photographic development will be extra-curricular, but it will do you the world of good to work to other people's demands, as that is what you will be doing for most off your working life,

Take the colour darkroom course, it fills up the day, and it will teach you something. And you will learn stuff you didn't anticipate. You may even discover something that fills you with joy.

It doesn't really matter what you take, if you are a keen photographer, as most of the time you will be longing to get out of the room and grab a shot of that tree over there that you can see out of the window, or that sky that would be brilliant photoshopped behind the picture of the Uni chapel, or that couple necking by the pond. You get the idea. What the hell archie what the hell - take practical classes in tapestry if you like, it will improve your appreciation of pattern and composition, and might teach you a bit of humility.

Sounds a bit cruel really, but if you go into a photography course thinking that you are aiming for one specific field, using one specific medium, then you are reducing your own chances of job satisfaction and future employment. Over the next few years you may prove to be less proficient in digital photojournalism than your classmates, so it would be great to be able to use a large format film camera properly and travel the world taking landscapes. Or would you prefer to work in a D & P chainstore?

Your final questions were:

Do you think at the university level students should be required to learn both black and white and colored darkrooms before being able to do digital?

Second, do you think that photography students should be required to take painting, sculpture, life drawing and classes such as this?

Third and last question, In your experience do you think that it is necessary to learn the colored darkroom process????

And my answer to all three questions:

Yes. A resounding YES!!

Try everything. Draw a bit, do collage, learn to sew, buy some play-doh, get some crayons, ride a bike, wear your shirt back to front, dye your hair blue, get a Gamecube, throw away your mobile phone....

Crazy stuff, I know, but now is your chance to open your mind - aim at becoming an artist, don't try to be a technician.

Artists make the best photojournalists anyway.

 

[mygrain]

Obviously we all agree that art classes are a big part of being a great photgraphor. These classes are designed to make you look and observe, to understand compositon, color, and technique. This is the point in your life where absorbing as much knowledge about understanding the basics of art is the key. Take as much and whatever you can towards an art degree. It will only enrich your ability to take photos as well as your life. Being able to capture the perfect moment can come easy when you can anticipate it before hand. These are classes will help. Remember you have a lifetime to be creative- you are there to learn and get edjamakated!!

 

[Nikon Fan]

WARNING THIS IS REALLY LONG!!!

I wanna look at this from a few different viewpoints.

I think that some of the things one also learns at school and university is how to deal with authority, how to work as a member of a team, how to do individual research.

I think the original poster has perhaps created a rod for his own back, as he has already alienated one of his future tutors. The best thing to do when investigating Uni courses is to listen to the spiel from all the Unis you might go to, then choose the one that suits you. It is almost impossible to change the way a Uni teaches, even from within. (I am speaking as an ex-Uni and F.E. teacher - even the teachers themselves found it VERY hard to get anything changed.)

As to what you should be studying, I don't think it makes a blind bit of difference what you study in a photographic course, so I think you should just grin and bear it. School and Uni aren't there to teach you how things should be done. They are there to teach you how to use your brain so that you can decide how YOU want to do things. THe majority of your photographic development will be extra-curricular, but it will do you the world of good to work to other people's demands, as that is what you will be doing for most off your working life,

Take the colour darkroom course, it fills up the day, and it will teach you something. And you will learn stuff you didn't anticipate. You may even discover something that fills you with joy.

It doesn't really matter what you take, if you are a keen photographer, as most of the time you will be longing to get out of the room and grab a shot of that tree over there that you can see out of the window, or that sky that would be brilliant photoshopped behind the picture of the Uni chapel, or that couple necking by the pond. You get the idea. What the hell archie what the hell - take practical classes in tapestry if you like, it will improve your appreciation of pattern and composition, and might teach you a bit of humility.

Sounds a bit cruel really, but if you go into a photography course thinking that you are aiming for one specific field, using one specific medium, then you are reducing your own chances of job satisfaction and future employment. Over the next few years you may prove to be less proficient in digital photojournalism than your classmates, so it would be great to be able to use a large format film camera properly and travel the world taking landscapes. Or would you prefer to work in a D & P chainstore?

Your final questions were:

Do you think at the university level students should be required to learn both black and white and colored darkrooms before being able to do digital?

Second, do you think that photography students should be required to take painting, sculpture, life drawing and classes such as this?

Third and last question, In your experience do you think that it is necessary to learn the colored darkroom process????

And my answer to all three questions:

Yes. A resounding YES!!

Try everything. Draw a bit, do collage, learn to sew, buy some play-doh, get some crayons, ride a bike, wear your shirt back to front, dye your hair blue, get a Gamecube, throw away your mobile phone....

Crazy stuff, I know, but now is your chance to open your mind - aim at becoming an artist, don't try to be a technician.

Artists make the best photojournalists anyway.

Thanks for making assumptions about me :er: Seeing as how you know nothing about me, you've made some awfully bold statements.

1. In no way at all have I "eliminated a future tutor" and speaking from knowing the guy personally he's not one that you'd want as a future tutor...but that was an assumption on your part. I simply had a discussion and we disagreed on something, if that eliminates my professor as a tutor, then myself and anyone else at the university level is screwed b/c we don't share the same viewpoints!!!

2. Assuming that it's impossible to change things is a sad remark from you. At least I don't slide by like so many other students and settle for what has been given to me, instead I demand more...and I think in the business world that will go far. If you choose to allow everyone to walk all over you and dictate their opinions upon yourself then you are the one that's probably working in "D & P chainstore"

3. If it doesn't matter what you take in college then why are there majors to choose from. I guess it should be just like a continuation of high school according to your viewpoint. IMO college is to get a well rounded education, but to be able to take the area you enjoy and really learn about it...but for the point of bettering your future in the workplace, not just about gaining the knowledge but allowing the knowledge to be useful. What's the point of being smart in everything, but not being able to excel in one area???
Let's just take this example...say I go into the Emergency Room, and there's a brand new nurse fresh out of college tending to me. Would I hope that she was able to learn about phography, science, math, and religion, or would I want her to know as much as she could in her specific field, and on top of knowing as much as she could, she should know the newest things available to her to be able to do the best for her patient. Why wouldn't the same be for a photographer. Sure it's good to have a class to learn the old ways, but shouldn't the focus be on what the newest way is, to maximize quality for everyone???

4. By targeting what I really enjoy and what will be useful won't make me a second choice in a job, but more of a first. If I'm applying for a job and a person going against me has a small knowledge of everything photography related, and I have that same small knowledge, but combined with a great knowledge and understanding in digital, which do you think they will hire?
I'm not saying to throw the darkroom out but to minimize the use so that we are better prepared for a work environment, b/c IMO that's what college is about, preparing students to be the best workers possible, to think differently, and make their own opinions.

5. You said..."Over the next few years you may prove to be less proficient in digital photojournalism than your classmates, so it would be great to be able to use a large format film camera properly and travel the world taking landscapes. Or would you prefer to work in a D & P chainstore?"

I really appreciate you assuming that I will be less proficient than others around me. Maybe this is b/c my classes are stuck in the past methods, while others are moving on. I personally think more about photography then any of the students in my classes, and that is quite apparent, but agian you don't know me, I'm not saying this is a prideful way, but I work my butt off to teach myself things before the classes even start. I have yet to have a digital photography or graphic design class, but I'm working like crazy to be proficient in photoshop before I get there...but I guess that puts me behind according to your opinion. I go out and take pictures at every available moment, and when I'm not I'm thinking about it, while others in my classes are still trying to figure out what in the heck they're going to do in life.

Thanks for sharing your opinion and thoughts, but you had to know I would share my own. I appreciate what you had to say, but I completley disagree with you. I see that more than just digital photography is needed, but you can't tell me that it doesn't matter at all what I take because it does. I don't mean to be rude or arrogant here, but you attacked me as a person and you don't know anything about me at all!!! Come visit this professor for a day and you'll see what I mean. Come watch me for a day, and you'll see what I mean. I'm just striving to do the best I can do and be the best I can be, so that one day I will get the job I've been wanting for so long!!!

 

[mygrain]

meeeeeeeeeeooooooooowwwwwww!!! Amanda, girl you kick butt!! I have complete faith in you!!! and I hope to never have you put me in my place cuz I can feel the steam from ^^^ the one above. It burns.

 

[Nikon Fan]

meeeeeeeeeeooooooooowwwwwww!!! Amanda, girl you kick butt!! I have complete faith in you!!! and I hope to never have you put me in my place cuz I can feel the steam from ^^^ the one above. It burns.

Thanks mygrain I knew it my be a bit harsh, but you gotta defend yourself eh?

 

[Kodan_Txips]

Yeah, but read my post, eh? And don't think that I am assuming anything.

1) My word was not eliminate, it was alienate.

2) I can understand the need for change, and I can understand your desire to do so. But you won't change much at the entry interview, except perhaps the interviewer's opinion of you.

3) When I said it doesn't matter what you take at Uni, I was talking within the framework of a photography course - I would not recommend that you take linguistics or mathematics, obviously. (Although who knows, they might be useful.) And I still believe that studying (almost) any area of photography will be of benefit to you as a photographer. And why concentrate on Digital at Uni - as you say, you have the drive and ambition to study that yourself. So use Uni to give yourself extra potential in other areas.

Also, I wouldn't be bothered if my nurse knew about "phography, science, math, and religion" as it might make her fun to chat to. But it isn't important to me. But for HER sake I wouldn't want her to ONLY know about caring for my client-group - I would want her to have studied paediatrics, mental health care, caring for the old, emergency room procedures, the whole gamut. (Although some days I think all four of the latter apply to me...)

4) I am saddened that you believe that the purpose of college is " preparing students to be the best workers possible". I would prefer to think of the process to be making the student the best and happiest PERSON possible.

5) My saying that "you may prove to be less proficient in digital photojournalism than your classmates" does not mean that I am assuming that you WILL be less proficient than those around you. It is also possible that you will be better than them. However, it is not a gamble I would be willing to take, at least not to the extent of closing down my options to do something else.

I don't actually recall attacking you as a person, except beyond suggesting that a tapestry course might teach humility. Sorry if that offended you. .....

At no point did I say that I thought you were 'behind' in any way - in fact, and I say this semi-jokingly, because you may well take it the wrong way (again) but perhaps you are sometimes a little bit too 'up front'?

My opinions were given in order to give a different viewpoint on your original post. They were intended to be only mildly critical of you, but more concerned about the effect your feelings might have on your future within education, life and work.

It would maybe help if you re-read what I said while thinking of me as a total stranger giving his own opinion, trying to be helpful, rather than as someone who is 'out to get you'.

But anyway, good luck in your studies and your career - I always wanted to be a pro photographer myself, but didn't have the opportunity or the talent.

 

[havoc]

Like was said earlier, you have to take a diverse group of classes to develop your eye for art/photography. College is not about learning specifically what you will do in the busness world, it is a right of passage much like many other things in this world. They are having more traditional photogrphy classes because the very nature of those classes slow you down, and teach you to look critically at your work. Digital is great, but if anyone who knew how to use an f/stop and photoshop could grab there digital and snap off 100 ansels then there would be nothing special about it. You may think you will be using only digital in the business world, and your probably right, but you will have to endure the traditional photo classes and they will benefit you more then you will probably ever know. It is great that you are learning before the class as well, if you know the basics it will give you more time to hone the skills your professor wants you to learn as opposed to actually learning how it is done. Please do not underestimate these classes you are required to take, if you do, your chances of success in business world will suffer.

 

[NikonChick]

Well; heres my two cents-- from someone in a simular boat.

I took photo and digital imaging at a community college. LOVED IT. Just photo, no painting, no drawing, no papers, just photos, BW darkroom and digital for commercial use... ie no artsy stuff, just technical. Pure 'what you need to know'. (which didnt include colour DkRm.) Part of my reason for opting this route was that I have zero talent with playdoh or crayons and hate research. At uni Id have had to taken the other crap.

Now, 5 years later Ive let photography get a bit away from me and have been contemplating either taking some refresher classes or put what I have toward a degree. 5 years later I STILL have ZERO desire to take drawing and performance art classes but I have a much better grasp on their requirement and can appreciate how they will help my career in photography. That said, Im still leaning toward the refresher courses instead... its personal choice... if you dont want to take them, dont. Theres always another route, but trust me, its often scenic.

As for colour darkroom... no, I dont think its neccessary to know it but I do think its neccessary to understand it. Ive worked in both 1hrs and prolabs and they require pouring premeasured chemistry into equipment that mixes and maintains it. Indepth knowledge of colour is only (unfortuneately) used by those you design the equipment. But some knowledge, such as that tought in a single semester would be very useful in choosing film, choosing a lab and choosing various digital software that continues to try to match the colours produced by various films.

BW DkRm. Absolutely. Its amazing how much you learn about composition and filters in the darkroom. Is it something you need to know as a journalist...No, but its a cool hobbie.

As for what Kodan said.... RELAX!!!! And listen to him.... it was very good advice. There was nothing in what was said that required such a hostel response. There were no assumptions or condesending tone. Just lots more for you to think about.... thats what you asked for.

Good luck in whatever you choose to do.

 

[Nikon Fan]

Yeah, but read my post, eh? And don't think that I am assuming anything.

1) My word was not eliminate, it was alienate.

2) I can understand the need for change, and I can understand your desire to do so. But you won't change much at the entry interview, except perhaps the interviewer's opinion of you.

3) When I said it doesn't matter what you take at Uni, I was talking within the framework of a photography course - I would not recommend that you take linguistics or mathematics, obviously. (Although who knows, they might be useful.) And I still believe that studying (almost) any area of photography will be of benefit to you as a photographer. And why concentrate on Digital at Uni - as you say, you have the drive and ambition to study that yourself. So use Uni to give yourself extra potential in other areas.

Also, I wouldn't be bothered if my nurse knew about "phography, science, math, and religion" as it might make her fun to chat to. But it isn't important to me. But for HER sake I wouldn't want her to ONLY know about caring for my client-group - I would want her to have studied paediatrics, mental health care, caring for the old, emergency room procedures, the whole gamut. (Although some days I think all four of the latter apply to me...)

4) I am saddened that you believe that the purpose of college is " preparing students to be the best workers possible". I would prefer to think of the process to be making the student the best and happiest PERSON possible.

5) My saying that "you may prove to be less proficient in digital photojournalism than your classmates" does not mean that I am assuming that you WILL be less proficient than those around you. It is also possible that you will be better than them. However, it is not a gamble I would be willing to take, at least not to the extent of closing down my options to do something else.

I don't actually recall attacking you as a person, except beyond suggesting that a tapestry course might teach humility. Sorry if that offended you. .....

At no point did I say that I thought you were 'behind' in any way - in fact, and I say this semi-jokingly, because you may well take it the wrong way (again) but perhaps you are sometimes a little bit too 'up front'?

My opinions were given in order to give a different viewpoint on your original post. They were intended to be only mildly critical of you, but more concerned about the effect your feelings might have on your future within education, life and work.

It would maybe help if you re-read what I said while thinking of me as a total stranger giving his own opinion, trying to be helpful, rather than as someone who is 'out to get you'.

But anyway, good luck in your studies and your career - I always wanted to be a pro photographer myself, but didn't have the opportunity or the talent.

3) But if all I do is study on my own then what's the point in being at a college in the first place. The skills they teach are to better us in the work environment, so IMO I want to learn something I can use, not just something that's so old all I can do is think about it rather than put it to practical use.

4) Maybe being the best worker possible is what makes some people happy...I enjoy having fun with photography otherwise I would never have chosen this field. So what I implied didn't mean there wasn't any fun involved, b/c working at photography is ALWAYS fun for me, and if it becomes to where it isn't that's when I stop.

I think the point of the original message has been misunderstood. I was simply really asking 3 questions, rather than asking for you to take those questions and make them what you would. I didn't mean that I don't think there is no need for anything but digital, but I do think that it should be condensed. I can take a semester, two at the max and understand the basics needed, and then be able to studying the things I'm going to use. Why study two years of color darkroom, and only a semester of digital if that's what the workplace will require? It doesn't make any sense. New ways of doing things have always and will always come up, and we either choose to accept them and go with the flow, or reject them and be stuck on teh past and see that as the only correct way. If we all had the same mindset that you are presenting where it doesn't matter what part of photography that we study, then we could be stuck in the old ways of doing things and would never progress. All I was simply trying to imply was that it seems crazy to me to spend 3/4 of classes studying the old and 1/4 studying the part that is really going to be important in gaining a job.

When you directed comments at " original poster" saying has perhaps created a rod for his own back, that' when it became personal. If you would have left all that off and made it just as a statement it would have been much less offensive. Also if you were seemingly joking as you say then you might imply that with a j/k or an emoticon, because it doesn't come across that way otherwise.

I don't mean to offend you with my reply, but the statements you made were very strong, and about my character and future and I didn't appreciate that. IMO strong words were needed to defend my viewpoint. It seems that we just have a disagreement of opinions, and can leave it at that. I wont' change your mind and you won't change my mind.

As for your statement NikonChick try re-reading what the intial questions were and what he replied but from a viewpoint as if you were "the oringal poster" and you'll have just a little taste of what it felt like reading that. Being told that you might wind up working at a chainstore isn't what I call a compliment but more a judge of character. I didn't ask for personal attacks, but a decent conversation, and it was that way for a while. Anything specifically targeted at one person would seem to be an attack on that person in a post with tones such as these, so put yourself in my shoes.

I only felt that my original post was being misunderstood and felt the need to defend myself as a person, not just someone at a random internet forum that you happened upon. Sorry for this sounding so hostile but when a persons character is assumed as it isn't true at all then something needs to be said.


Thanks again everyone for your opinions on this matter. And sorry if I come off like an arrrogant jerk through these posts, but I don't deal well with my character being assumed and attacked and felt the need to defend myself. It seems that a lot of us have different viewpoints and that's good IMO b/c everyone would all be the same otherwise Everything said here has given myself and everyone new things to consider, but also seems to still show the division between darkroom and digital. Thanks again for all the responses.

 

[ShutteredEye]

Yeah, but read my post, eh? And don't think that I am assuming anything.

1) My word was not eliminate, it was alienate.

2) I can understand the need for change, and I can understand your desire to do so. But you won't change much at the entry interview, except perhaps the interviewer's opinion of you.

3) When I said it doesn't matter what you take at Uni, I was talking within the framework of a photography course - I would not recommend that you take linguistics or mathematics, obviously. (Although who knows, they might be useful.) And I still believe that studying (almost) any area of photography will be of benefit to you as a photographer. And why concentrate on Digital at Uni - as you say, you have the drive and ambition to study that yourself. So use Uni to give yourself extra potential in other areas.

Also, I wouldn't be bothered if my nurse knew about "phography, science, math, and religion" as it might make her fun to chat to. But it isn't important to me. But for HER sake I wouldn't want her to ONLY know about caring for my client-group - I would want her to have studied paediatrics, mental health care, caring for the old, emergency room procedures, the whole gamut. (Although some days I think all four of the latter apply to me...)

4) I am saddened that you believe that the purpose of college is " preparing students to be the best workers possible". I would prefer to think of the process to be making the student the best and happiest PERSON possible.

5) My saying that "you may prove to be less proficient in digital photojournalism than your classmates" does not mean that I am assuming that you WILL be less proficient than those around you. It is also possible that you will be better than them. However, it is not a gamble I would be willing to take, at least not to the extent of closing down my options to do something else.

I don't actually recall attacking you as a person, except beyond suggesting that a tapestry course might teach humility. Sorry if that offended you. .....

At no point did I say that I thought you were 'behind' in any way - in fact, and I say this semi-jokingly, because you may well take it the wrong way (again) but perhaps you are sometimes a little bit too 'up front'?

My opinions were given in order to give a different viewpoint on your original post. They were intended to be only mildly critical of you, but more concerned about the effect your feelings might have on your future within education, life and work.

It would maybe help if you re-read what I said while thinking of me as a total stranger giving his own opinion, trying to be helpful, rather than as someone who is 'out to get you'.

But anyway, good luck in your studies and your career - I always wanted to be a pro photographer myself, but didn't have the opportunity or the talent.

Well said Kodan.

IMHO: knowledge is a good thing-don't be afraid to learn.

Amanda:

You don't know me, but I know you. I used to be you (and still am in many regards). And where you are is not a bad thing, and I'm certainly not faulting you for feeling the way you do--as I would probably have felt the same way.

However, being older now, and lived a few more years, I've come to the conclusion that if you choose to take the world on full frontal combat at every chance that avails itself you will be spending a WHOLE lot of time being angry and self righteous. (Don't get pissed at me, I know from EXPERIENCE.)

Amanda, people are stupid and ignorant sometimes. They are closeminded, and shortsighted. But they also are rarely out to get you personally, and even more rarely, actually intend to slight you. Usually they are just doing their job the best they can, trying to get through the day and home to their families, and are completely clueless to the fact that they've offended you.

Do you know this advisor's background? Do you know why he would have reacted the way he did? Did you consider that at all?

See the great thing about advice is that you get to choose what you take, and what you leave. You may think he's full of cockamaney bull****e, but he may have a point or two you can take, internalize and move on.

Regardless he's the man between you and your degree. So, you either do the dog and pony show and graduate, or you find another university--that's just the way it is. I would be willing to bet a lot of money that he is not the one that sets policy, class load, rhetoric at your school.

If you truly feel strongly about the coursework (rather than feeling upset about what the advisor said to you) then put together a well written proposal of what you think should be offered. Take it to the Dean of Academics, and the Dept. Chairperson. If nothing else they may be able to work out a degree plan mirroring exactly what you want. But you can't be confrontational or inflammatory. You want to present it in a fashion that leaves them no choice but to respond to you with respect.

I understand that the most important thing to you right now is getting through school and into the job market, but please, if you listen to anything I've written at all this is it: there is soooo much more that is soooo much more important in life than your job. If you keep that focus for the rest of your life you will regret it.

I know.

I did.

Regards,

 

[Meysha]

ok, i haven't read all the replies yet, but thought I'd offer you an experience of my own showing how resistant to change these institutions are.

I'm studying French in an Aussie university but am currently on my Study-Abroad part in France. It's compulsory for uni students at my uni to pay a Student Association fee and this amount changes depending on whether you're studying on campus or externally. This year I had to pay 'on campus' fees because my subjects were listed in the computer as being that... eventhough I'm obviously NOT on campus. On Campus fees are about $300AUD and external fees are about $100AUD. So I wrote the Dean a nice little letter and he agreed with me it needs to be changed, but still a year later, nothing has been done.
Although he did offer me a refund of me fee. But that's not the point. Now every year each student like me is going to have to do the same thing. If he just changed it at the source we wouldn't have this problem. Although there's only about 1 or 2 students who do what I'm doing every year so it's probably not a 'priority'.

Anyway, just a ramble about how resistant to change these places are.

 

[Kodan_Txips]

I give up - my original comments were not meant to be offensive, they were carefully composed to lessen that possibility.

However, opinions often differ as to what constitutes offensive behaviour.

Mine obviously differ from yours, as is obvious from the tone of my posts, and your responses to them.

I had to refer to you as the original poster, as that is the post I was posting about. How is that offensive? To be honest, your description of your 'discussion' with that advisor made you appear somewhat disrespectful to him. I wasn't there, but that is how it appears to me - and that doesn't seem to be appropriate for someone in your position, as an applicant to that college.

The comment about working in a D & P chainstore was not a prediction for your future, nor was it a gipsy curse. It was a rhetorical question.

The only thing that needed a j/k or an emoticon to lessen its hurtful impact on you was the one that I did try to soften - the comment that you seem too 'up front' at times. In my opinion, you seem to fight far more fiercely than the situation requires, and that won't serve you well at college.

For your own sake, before you go to college, get more tolerant of criticism, more aware of when it is intended to help you, as you may find that your tutors and the other students will often criticise your work - that is part of the learning process, I would have thought. It is only by accepting and analysing criticism that you will improve. I think.

Please don't respond so aggressively in future to my posts, as I don't think any of them merit the kind of responses you are posting.

Finally, one thing I do apologise for is referring to you as him, a stylistic convention. This is because I hadn't read your nick backwards, which was remiss of me, in view of the fact that I am retepsam on several other forums.

 

[havoc]

I think everything has been said, lets end this one now please

 

[Nikon Fan]

Havoc, I hope that you aren't offended by the conversation taking place, but I feel that it is good to be able to express our opinions here, and as long as it's not turning into anything destructive then it could be helpful as long as the mods and admins allow it.

I would like to clear a few things up for discussion purposes though. I will be a senior in college, so it's not anything new for me. I am actually a transfer student from a state school and chose the private institution where I am at now for the fact that I am getting my education completely paid for rather than shelling out $$$ for a school I didn't really enjoy. I have the utmost respect for all of my teachers, but not this guy. You see there are only 3 teachers in the art department and the one that teaches all the photog classes is retiring this semester, and it looks as if they aren't hiring anyone else. The adviser/graphic design teacher says that it looks like he's going to be taking over all of that, and right now is just hoping to get to be the head of the department and he's only been at our school a semester. He treats everyone he works with and all of his students like they know nothing. He lost all of my work, my tests, notebooks, and even my advisement schedule at one point. If you ask any student in the art department their honest opinion of this man they will tell you the same thing. So please don't think that I'm just judging him based off of no previous experience. When the discussion started with him he asked my opinion about what needed to be done and I shared it with him and that's when he let me have it. He then proceeded to take me upstairs and threw my papers at the secretary treating her with utter disrepsect. The other problem is that he is telling new recruits that they should attend a different university and not take photography at our school, and telling current students to take courses elsewhere which will cause my classes not to make their required amounts and therefore causes mine and other students graduation dates to be months later than they should. I have him for painting this semester and he comes in the class for about 2 minutes everyday, looks at our work and walks out. He isn't teaching and helping in anyway, and this was the point of all frustration for me. Graduation is something that should be taken seriously and what he was doing with my schedule was trying to postpone it. I actually have a meeting with the Dean of the department tommorow to discuss the situation, the lack of disrespect for myself and everyone else, and most importantly him sending students elsewhere for classes. Hopefully this helps you better understand my situation and where I am coming from a bit.

In repsonse to a few things you said I hope that you don't think I repsond to criticism well. If I didn't there would be no way I would be at this board and post pics for everyone to see. I'm also a communications major at my school and give speeches in classes frequently, so criticism is something I appreciate. But one thing I have seen and found to be true is to always share my opinion whether or not anyone else agrees with it. I think the internet has a bad way of distorting what is trying to be said b/c of the lack of communication it provides in nonverbals and tones. So I really am truly sorry for "reading into" your posts if that was not what you meant. I hope that this discussion can continue in a decent manner, b/c it does provide some great insight for everyone here

Mountainlander thanks for sharing your opinion. I know that there is more to life than a job. But I am pushing myself to get the one I want, and do the best at it, and have fun while doing it. I don't want to regret decisions that I made and be the person who never got their dream job b/c that's just not me. Right now at this point in life, it seems the stepping stone to get there is through college, whatever classes involved, but some IMO seem to better prepare me more than others. My focus is to do the best I can at everything and never settle for less

 

[Mumfandc]

Second, do you think that photography students should be required to take painting, sculpture, life drawing and classes such as this?

Third and last question, In your experience do you think that it is necessary to learn the colored darkroom process????

Speaking as a Fine Arts student who HAD to take photography classes, I definately felt the photography classes added a whole other dimension to my work.

In particular, I LOVE doing traditional printmaking (etching, silkscreen, lithography, woodcutting, monotype). Some of which use actual "photographic" methods. They say printmaking incorporates all the various skills in fine arts i.e. painting, drawing, sculpture. Printmaking is one reason why I think traditional darkroom photography printing (esp. alternative processes) will still thrive for those who admire what it brings forth (and this group DOES exist), considering that traditional NON-photographic TRADITIONAL printmaking has thrived for hundreds of years...Example, those who specialize in typography can use digital means to create new vector based fonts, but there are still those who still specialize in calligraphy, which is VERY old practice. Same with the letterpress compared to a book publishers modern day printing machine.

I use both digital and film derived images in my printmaking work (bound for the printing press), and in the final print, MOST people I show them to don't care if it's a digital or film image. In this case, I suppose it's because the technical "work" of the printing process is more "important" than the photographic process. But I hate when people say stupid things, like on PHOTOSIG.com for example: "Digital is the only way to go, if you're using film you're a trilobyte".

If you look at Photoshop you'll see many PS filters which are supposed to "mimic" traditional darkroom and printmaking techniques, or hand-made processes, i.e. solarize, mezzotint, charcoal, respectively. Of course, they're never actually convincing...