Stops

[GooniesNeverSayDie11]

I really don't even understand how there is a debate about manual versus semi-auto and auto firing modes. Let me sum it up for everyone all fast like.

1. All beginners should learn on full manual- there is no advantage to learning in a semi-auto mode as pretending something doesn't exist does not help you learn about it better.

2. Semi-auto modes do one important thing - they alleviate the stress of worrying about one setting so that you can focus on the event at hand.

3. Full manual does one important thing - it gives you complete creative control fast and effectively.

Personally I very rarely ever need to shoot in semi-auto modes. About 80% of my images are creative and require me adjusting settings to a point that the camera could not know what I want. The other 20%? I still don't use semi-auto modes just because I don't like the restrictions it puts on you. Not being able to adjust something simply tweaks me out and bugs me. However if the situation is high stress and forces me to change settings often, I will use semi-auto so that I can just get the image right and not worry about it.

Sorry for not pertaining to the topic at all, however this debate irks me as there really is absolutely no debate on this matter. The fact is you can use any mode you want at any time, there is no correct answer or wrong answer. There is only the truth about what each mode does best.

My argument pertains more to the learning aspect of things. I agree that modes do not matter. Getting a shot matters, how you arrive there doesn't. However, the key point everyone seems to miss when they say things like "you should learn in manual" is that you do not go from no experience to shooting in manual overnight. Unless you want to take 10 minutes and multiple tries at every shot that you make until you understand all of what you are doing, why you are doing it, as well as how to do it on your specific camera with its controls ( think of the cameras that DON'T have dedicated wheels for both Aperture and Shutter Speed ). Therefore, someone doesn't walk into Best Buy and buy an entry level dSLR, go home and start shooting manual. Sure they can take time to tinker and practice, but the fact of the matter is, there has to be a starting point to slowly build understanding of both photography, and the controls of the camera WHILE you are still able to take halfway decent pictures. Therefore it makes more sense to take a logical progression through the settings. Sure, if you can have full control of the camera and do it fast enough to serve your purpose, thats great. However, the average person does not crawl out of the womb with those capabilities. So "learning in manual" to me, is not the same as "shooting 100% in manual". In reality its more of an ongoing process of peppering it in where you can so that you can build that experience. Many people push the mentality that you are not a true photographer until you have mastered using only manual. So people act as if its a pride thing or a right of passage that they have achieved when they really have no clue what they are doing half of the time. So they end up with terrible shots. Just like the guy who runs out and buys a full frame slr cause people make him feel like thats the only way to be a true photog, and then they spend 10k to take a bunch of garbage shots with no foundation behind them. Thats why I said at times its putting the cart before the horse. This may or may not have been the case with the OP, but I think it was a valid question given the original question posed.

I do agree that the argument got off of the rails quite a bit though.

 

[Kerbouchard]

Why would it take 10 minutes to set up a shot in manual? There is a meter in the bottom of the view finder. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to move the needle towards the middle. Heck, just the practice of adjusting the shutter speed and aperture to get the camera meter zeroed out is worth the extra few seconds it would take a new photographer. That way, they would at least learn lessons like shooting at a 3 second shutter speed and an aperture of f/32 doesn't work too well instead of just relying on the camera to prevent them from making mistakes.

IMO, people learn from their mistakes...the only thing I have seen most new photographers 'learn' by shooting in automated modes is that they are ready to start a business because all their friends and family think their pictures are great.

Heck, if while they are learning and not doing well, and an opportunity for a great shot comes up, it doesn't take but a fraction of a second to switch the camera over to Professional mode(the P).

 

[Derrel]

I think we need to get this thread back onto a more-appropriate subject, like something of greater importance. Like maybe the pressing question: real mayonnaise, or Miracle Whip???

 

[Kerbouchard]

I think we need to get this thread back onto a more-appropriate subject, like something of greater importance. Like maybe the pressing question: real mayonnaise, or Miracle Whip???

Miracle Whip is what real mayonnaise wishes it could be when it grows up.

Oh, and Chevy's over Fords, 1911's over glocks, and everybody knows that crunchy peanut butter is better than creamy peanut butter.

 

[kundalini]

Ohhhh, are we picking at the scab again? If you don't mind, I'm going to change your reply slightly and use a font and size that is more user friendly for those of us that are visually deficient. The words will remain the same.

My argument pertains more to the learning aspect of things. I agree that modes do not matter. Getting a shot matters, how you arrive there doesn't. However, the key point everyone seems to miss when they say things like "you should learn in manual" is that you do not go from no experience to shooting in manual overnight. Unless you want to take 10 minutes and multiple tries at every shot that you make until you understand all of what you are doing, why you are doing it, as well as how to do it on your specific camera with its controls ( think of the cameras that DON'T have dedicated wheels for both Aperture and Shutter Speed ). Therefore, someone doesn't walk into Best Buy and buy an entry level dSLR, go home and start shooting manual. Sure they can take time to tinker and practice, but the fact of the matter is, there has to be a starting point to slowly build understanding of both photography, and the controls of the camera WHILE you are still able to take halfway decent pictures. Therefore it makes more sense to take a logical progression through the settings. Sure, if you can have full control of the camera and do it fast enough to serve your purpose, thats great. However, the average person does not crawl out of the womb with those capabilities. So "learning in manual" to me, is not the same as "shooting 100% in manual". In reality its more of an ongoing process of peppering it in where you can so that you can build that experience. Many people push the mentality that you are not a true photographer until you have mastered using only manual. So people act as if its a pride thing or a right of passage that they have achieved when they really have no clue what they are doing half of the time. So they end up with terrible shots. Just like the guy who runs out and buys a full frame slr cause people make him feel like thats the only way to be a true photog, and then they spend 10k to take a bunch of garbage shots with no foundation behind them. Thats why I said at times its putting the cart before the horse. This may or may not have been the case with the OP, but I think it was a valid question given the original question posed.

I do agree that the argument got off of the rails quite a bit though.

Think of all of the millions of photographers that didn't have any buttons on their cameras.
Why not?
Not a prerequisite.
That happens to be your approach and mindset.
Learning curve, practice, $hit happens.
My money, my decisions, my mistakes.
Well then, leave the scab alone.

 

[kundalini]

and everybody knows that crunchy peanut butter is better than creamy peanut butter.

Only if you have the back teeth for it. Hopefully soon, I will. I miss my nuts.

 

[GooniesNeverSayDie11]

Why would it take 10 minutes to set up a shot in manual? There is a meter in the bottom of the view finder. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to move the needle towards the middle. Heck, just the practice of adjusting the shutter speed and aperture to get the camera meter zeroed out is worth the extra few seconds it would take a new photographer. That way, they would at least learn lessons like shooting at a 3 second shutter speed and an aperture of f/32 doesn't work too well instead of just relying on the camera to prevent them from making mistakes.

IMO, people learn from their mistakes...the only thing I have seen most new photographers 'learn' by shooting in automated modes is that they are ready to start a business because all their friends and family think their pictures are great.

Heck, if while they are learning and not doing well, and an opportunity for a great shot comes up, it doesn't take but a fraction of a second to switch the camera over to Professional mode(the P).

It would take 10 minutes if you weren't familiar with what you were doing or how to control your camera. If you were just going to set the meter to zero, there isn't any point at all in shooting manual anyway, other than to inflate your ego. In addition, in anything less than perfect light, depending on which metering mode you are in, that meter will jump around even when you zero it out, so that in itself can be frustrating and time consuming as a newb. It would make MORE sense to shoot in the semi auto modes as a beginner, to learn how shutter speeds and aperture affect your DOF and exposure, and switch to full manual on the times when you were more interested in screwing around and practicing. Not the other way around. When you got your first camera, did you put the switch to full manual where it has stayed to this day?

 

[mishele]

I think we need to get this thread back onto a more-appropriate subject, like something of greater importance. Like maybe the pressing question: real mayonnaise, or Miracle Whip???

Miracle Whip SUCKS!!!! I actually got angry when you presented this comparison!!! Don't **** w/ real mayo!!!

 

[GooniesNeverSayDie11]

Ohhhh, are we picking at the scab again?

How could I pick at you from over the internet?:lmao: And Miracle whip sucks.


*refrains from any missing nuts comments*:lmao:

 

[Kerbouchard]

Why would it take 10 minutes to set up a shot in manual? There is a meter in the bottom of the view finder. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to move the needle towards the middle. Heck, just the practice of adjusting the shutter speed and aperture to get the camera meter zeroed out is worth the extra few seconds it would take a new photographer. That way, they would at least learn lessons like shooting at a 3 second shutter speed and an aperture of f/32 doesn't work too well instead of just relying on the camera to prevent them from making mistakes.

IMO, people learn from their mistakes...the only thing I have seen most new photographers 'learn' by shooting in automated modes is that they are ready to start a business because all their friends and family think their pictures are great.

Heck, if while they are learning and not doing well, and an opportunity for a great shot comes up, it doesn't take but a fraction of a second to switch the camera over to Professional mode(the P).

It would take 10 minutes if you weren't familiar with what you were doing or how to control your camera. If you were just going to set the meter to zero, there isn't any point at all in shooting manual anyway, other than to inflate your ego. In addition, in anything less than perfect light, depending on which metering mode you are in, that meter will jump around even when you zero it out, so that in itself can be frustrating and time consuming as a newb. It would make MORE sense to shoot in the semi auto modes as a beginner, to learn how shutter speeds and aperture affect your DOF and exposure, and switch to full manual on the times when you were more interested in screwing around and practicing. Not the other way around. When you got your first camera, did you put the switch to full manual where it has stayed to this day?

The only part of that I find interesting was when you were talking about the meter jumping around.

I agree, that sure can be frustrating...You have to pick a setting and just let the meter bounce around.

You know when it would be especially frustrating as a new photographer? When you are in lighting conditions that are causing something like that and you happen to be in an automated mode...shots varying wildly from shot to shot. Not knowing why some shots are too dark and some are too bright. Not being able to predict when you'll get a good expsoure because that darn meter keeps bouncing around. Now that is what I would call frustrating.

 

[mishele]

Miracle whip sucks, Miracle whip sucks, Miracle whip sucks, Miracle whip sucks, Miracle whip sucks.....everyone now...........Miracle whip sucks, Miracle whip sucks, Miracle whip sucks!!!!

 

[kundalini]

You know when it would be especially frustrating as a new photographer? When you are in lighting conditions that are causing something like that and you happen to be in an automated mode...shots varying wildly from shot to shot. Not knowing why some shots are too dark and some are too bright. Not being able to predict when you'll get a good expsoure because that darn meter keeps bouncing around. Now that is what I would call frustrating.

Some people (raises hand) forget they had previously been bracketing shots.


I'm from the South and I like Miracle Whip, but Dukes Mayo in potato salad is the best.

 

[mishele]

You know when it would be especially frustrating as a new photographer? When you are in lighting conditions that are causing something like that and you happen to be in an automated mode...shots varying wildly from shot to shot. Not knowing why some shots are too dark and some are too bright. Not being able to predict when you'll get a good expsoure because that darn meter keeps bouncing around. Now that is what I would call frustrating.

Some people (raises hand) forget they had previously been bracketing shots.


I'm from the South and I like Miracle Whip, but Dukes Mayo in potato salad is the best.

K.......I don't know if I can be friends w/ you anymore! ( tequila is flowing!!)

 

[GooniesNeverSayDie11]

I'm from the South and I like Miracle Whip, but Dukes Mayo in potato salad is the best.

I can stand miracle whip, its quite good with left over turkey after thanksgiving to make turkey salad. Real mayo is better though. Regardless of which though, its gotta be spread thin on the bread. Everytime I go into subway and they use their "caulk gun" of Mayo on my sub, I want to choke them.

 

[kundalini]

K.......I don't know if I can be friends w/ you anymore! ( tequila is flowing!!)

On account of a little white, creamy, protien enriched substance?

I'm devastated, but I can go both ways if that'll make you happy. (No sword fights allowed)