Strobe Flash wattage ?? and a few other ??

[dannylightning]

This is really what I need to know
1. How many watts should be the minimum for a strobe flash
2. What else will i need besides the flash its self. umbrellas, soft boxes ?
3. how do I get them to work with my camera. i want them to fire on their own when i take the picture. non of the videos i have watched say much about making them work with your camera or what wattage lights they are using.


i am not really looking for what exact light to buy but a general guide as to what wattage i will need for the light and anything i will need to go along with the lights.

- I would like to start out with a one light or two light set up and than use a reflector if i need to, i want to keep it as simple and low cost as possible. looks like i can get a descent 300 watt strobe flash for around 80 bucks but i am not sure if 300 watt is good, this kit looks appealing and i guess a 3rd light cant hurt.. but not sure if this is enough to provide proper lighting for my room.

Amazon.com : Strobe Studio Flash Light Kit 900W - Photographic Lighting - Strobes, Barn Doors, Light Stands, Triggers, Umbrellas, Soft Box : Photo Studio Support Equipment : Camera & Photo

or maybe 2 of these but i am not sure if they will provide proper lighting for my room.

Amazon.com : CowboyStudio GODOX Pro Photography Studio Monolight Strobe Photo Flash SpeedLight 300WS Light : Photographic Monolights : Camera & Photo

I have set up a backdrop in my basement, just hanging some cloth over something down there, it works for now and i will get a better backdrop set up. right now my main concern is lightning equipment and how its going to work in my room. here is a pic of the room. I can easily make something so i can hang a back drop from the rafters down there.

The basement is big and open and probably not the most idea type of room to do this kind of thing but this is what i have to work with.

 

[Derrel]

In a smaller area like a basement, 300 Watt-second strobes are PLENTY powerful for smaller table-top shots and one- or two-person portraits. The flashes shown in that kit look like all the other made in China disposable flash units. I say disposable because most of those have NON-replaceable flashtubes. When a tube blows, you throw the thing away and buy another entire unit. The next step up is the $99 Flashpoint 320M monolights from Adorama, which have user-replaceable flashtubes. What the kit offers are some lowish-height stands, and some softboxes and am umbrella and a barndoor/grid set. Used carefully, it ought to help you learn a lot.

As to the flash units: Adorama now has its own house brand of disposables, which I have seen sold for as low as $49 in the cookie-induced pop-up ads they send me on Facebook. These premiered this year. The thing that makes these lower-cost kits usable, IMHO, are the softboxes. Buuuuuuut, there are some decent "umbrella boxes", which are enclosed umbrellas with a white nylon front diffusing cover, and the monolights are aimed into the umbrella bowl, the light is scrambled and reflected, and then that light goes through the front diffusion material, creating what I call double-diffused light. So, even on the 40 to 43-inch size umbrella boxes, the light is quite soft, and is also fairly easily controllable in smaller areas, like...basements or apartment rooms. These function in most ways, like a softbox. Steve Kaeser Enteprises on-line sells some good MIC ones (I own some, pretty good performance).

Three, 100-Watt-second lights are adequate. 300 is kind of a sales point, and will often need to be turned down to half or quarter power in smaller or closer set-ups. However, 300 W-sec also give more "POP!" for longer shots or in bigger rooms, or when aimed up and at a wall, as a way to illuminate a big area with a bounced flash head designed to "lift the ambient" as it is called. That can work well when shooting an event where you want to corner-bounce or wall-bounce a studio flash head and illuminate a bigger room with a broad wash of flash illumination, or light a group of say 10,15,20,25 people with a flash that has been MOVED WAY BACK, so as to create a very even light that has almost no fall-off across the entire group.

 

[Stradawhovious]

Love the Edge 540 profile! I'm looking to get me one of those in the near future.

 

[dannylightning]

Awesome information Derrel, Thank you, That really helps allot, Ill check out that kit your mentioned. Can you send me a link to these umbrella boxes you are talking about ??


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That is a Twisted hobbys foamy, I think it cost around 150 bucks total for the air frame and their basic electronic kit they sell, not including the price of the receiver. on a small foamy like that i cant see the need for high end electronics, on my helicopters i only buy the good stuff. last thing i want is a flying lawn mower going out of control lol... as long as its not a windy day that little plane flys extremely well and its extremely durable.

 

[Derrel]

Steve Kaeser Photographic Lighting

These are 42-inch umbrella boxes.

 

[WayneF]

This is really what I need to know
1. How many watts should be the minimum for a strobe flash
2. What else will i need besides the flash its self. umbrellas, soft boxes ?
3. how do I get them to work with my camera. i want them to fire on their own when i take the picture. non of the videos i have watched say much about making them work with your camera or what wattage lights they are using.


i am not really looking for what exact light to buy but a general guide as to what wattage i will need for the light and anything i will need to go along with the lights.

- I would like to start out with a one light or two light set up and than use a reflector if i need to, i want to keep it as simple and low cost as possible. looks like i can get a descent 300 watt strobe flash for around 80 bucks but i am not sure if 300 watt is good, this kit looks appealing and i guess a 3rd light cant hurt.. but not sure if this is enough to provide proper lighting for my room.

300 watts is good in the studio, if turned down. Might be excessive for ISO 200, but OK for ISO 100. You will normally have to turn them down.

Studio lights all have slave triggers in them. You trigger one unit some way, and its flash triggers all others in sync. Works great. Normally the fill light is near the camera lens, so it is the near one, so I just use a provided PC sync cord to this near one. The cord is no issue to a camera on a tripod. If the camera is hand held, you could use a radio trigger (to this near one). The Nikon AS-15 accessory will add PC sync to your camera hot shoe.

For camera speedlights, you really want umbrellas instead of softboxes. I use one large softbox with studio lights, on the main light, and use an umbrella for fill light. Background and hair light use grids to throw a more narrow beam.

Regarding power requirements, it depends on use. Is it a very close main light in the studio, or are you competing with sun outdoors, or trying to light the full basketball court? These are all extremely different situations, which needs different lights. 300 watt seconds is good and plenty in the portrait studio, but sunshine outdoors needs more.

You will also need a hand held flash meter, to set the relative power level of the multiple lights (easy setup). I would offer comments:
Why would I need a handheld light meter?
I also use the PC sync cord to trigger and meter the individual lights (at setup).

In power comparison, just for the comparison, the full size camera speedlights (SB-800, SB-900) are about 75 watt seconds. In the same umbrella, their full power will compete with a 300 watt second monolight turned down to 1/4 power. Speedlights do recycle slowly, but fan cooled monolights can be ready virtually immediately.

300 watt seconds is one stop brighter than 150 watt seconds.
ISO 200 is one stop brighter than ISO 100.
A 300 ws light at ISO 100 gives the same exposure as 150 ws at ISO 200.

The lights you post however, are minimal, cheapest price, not best long term solution. They offer no specs to describe them. Are they fan cooled? Are they auto dump? How far do they turn down? (far enough to use 300 ws turned down?) How fast do they recycle? Are options available (modifiers, grids, etc)? Where do you get a flash tube? Are parts and service available? etc, etc. If not said, probable answer is No.

Lowest price is never the best bargain. Mainstream is good.

If you want to see specs and full disclosure, at least look at Paul C. Buff - AlienBees These are very special, the easy sales leader in the USA. These are the low price lights, but good enough to keep. Direct sales only, priced accordingly, and will serve for many years. I have had four of them for years. Search Google for Alienbees Review. Then search for your brand names. See?

See more comments about power levels not far down from top at:
An Easy and Standard 45 degree Portrait Lighting Setup

 

[dannylightning]

Thanks for all the info, Those umbrella boxes look nice,

what about these, looks like you can get replacement flash bulbs and modeling lights for them. i am thinking 300watt might be a better option, I figure the extra wattage might come in handy, maybe not. i don't know.
Flashpoint Budget Studio Monolight Flash, 300 Watt Seconds BF-300W

Really I just want a descent quality reliable 2 light set up that wont cost me a arm and a leg and maybe add a 3rd light later on down the line. if you guys think those there in the link will do alright ill probably go with those lights, if not ill probably just get those 320M lights unless i can find something better in that price range. around 100.00 a light is the max I want to spend on just the light its self.

 

[Derrel]

Okay...I think their 120 Watt-second "budget" model at $49.95 is the better value. Flashpoint Budget Studio Monolight Flash, 120 Watt Seconds BF-120W

At $99, the Flashpoint 320M is the BEST value of any maker's monolight with replaceable flashbtubes: it puts out MORE light than an Alien Bee 400, for $149 less money. The Flashpoint 320M is $99, and so is the throwaway or "economy" 300 W-sec Flashpoint, so it makes sense to me to buy the older, user-servicewable 320M over the newer "budget" model.

Yes, the 320M is lower in power, but it's not a throw-away type unit. If a guy wants low-cost, disposables, the $49.95, 120 Watt-second model seems like a reasonable cost/performance option. I personally think three lights is the right starter kit, not two, but three.

Did you see Wayne's nice 45-degree lighting set-up writeup on his web pages? That a good example of the kind of simple portraiture setup where it's very common to utilize a CLASSIC lighting tool: a honeycomb grid-equipped flash to illuminate the background, and also a main light, and a fill light.

I would rather have three, or four, low-powered flash units than I would just two lights of any power. I am a believer in four and five light setups. Two can work, yes, but three lights is reallllllly common, and really makes life easier. FOUR lights is common, and not that difficult to set up. Because three and four-light setups are so common, I see the value in owning four identical lights. If you need to drop down to $49 or $99 lights to be able to own four lights, I say do it!

Look at the cost of a $49 versus a $249 single light.

 

[WayneF]

At $99, the Flashpoint 320M is the BEST value of any maker's monolight with replaceable flashbtubes: it puts out MORE light than an Alien Bee 400, for $149 less money. This is $99, and so is the throwaway or "economy" 300 W-sec Flashpoint.

I agree with throwaway but disagree on specifications and performance

Where do you see more light? I would doubt that, but GN depends on the reflector and modifier. Assuming GN measured with provided reflector, AB 7 inch reflector is 80 degrees wide. Flashpoint does not specify (anything). AB says 7000 lumen/seconds, Flashpoint does not mention it.

Flashpoint does not mention AutoDump. Don't know, no manual is online, but AB is. Usage is the pits without it.
Both have two year warranty, which is good, but AB offers 60 day Money Back, No Questions, which is little risk for them.
Plus, AB service and support is legendary. Where do you sent Flashpoint for repair after two years?
Just saying, for long term use vs. throwaway, sometimes there is a little more than price to consider.

Flashpoint 320M Specifications

Recycling Time	AC 0.5 - 1 Second; DC <1.5 Seconds AB B400: 0.5 second at FULL POWER
Power (Watt Seconds)	150 ws
Guide Number	118
Flash Duration	1/600 to 1/1000 AB B400 1/6000 second t.5 at full power
Power Control	Stepless Control from Full Power to 1/32 Power
Fan Cooled	No AB B400: YES - can keep shooting
Modeling Lamp	100 watts AB B400: 150 watts
Modeling Bulb Base	E26 - E27
Voltage	6 Volts sync
Built-In Slave	yes
User replaceable flashtube	yes
Dimensions	11" x 5.6" x 7.5"
Weight	3 Lbs
Fuse	10A #FPF10 AB B400: circuit breaker

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

 

[dannylightning]

So the 320M is that good, I guess ill get a set of those, For now, could I get away with one of these lights and a white board for a reflector ? I could always get one or two more of these later.

I think the AB lights are a bit out of my budget, I am looking for a good starter kit, if I end up being able to make some descent money off this than i would upgrade to better stuff later. but i am not really sure ow well making money off this will work.

i can get some really nice pics down there with just the big ceiling light on but i would like to have some lights that i can more around and get different lighting effects.

 

[Derrel]

The fact is,the Flashpoint 320M puts out more light than the Alien Bee 400,and as much or a tiny bit more than the AB 800. Check the side-by side tests: product review | adorama flashpoint studio gear | Clickin MomsClickin Moms

The Flashpoint 320M CONSISTENTLY puts out one full f/stop MORE light than the Alien Bee 400 does. Five feet, no reflector, Sekonic flash meter, ISO 100.

The Flashpoint 320M also puts out the same exact f/stop worth, or 1/10 stop MORE LIGHT, than the Alien Bee 800.The Flashpoint 320M tested a remarkably consistent f/11 over 10-shot metering strings, while the AB 800 varied 1/10 of a stop pretty consistently. Again....$99 for the 320M, $248 for the Alien Bee 400, $279 for the Alien Bee 800 unit.

Price of two Alien Bee 400 flashes? $500. Price for five Flashpoint 320M units? $500. Again, $99 for the same output as a $279 offshore-made Alien Bee.

 

[WayneF]

The fact is,the Flashpoint 320M puts out more light than the Alien Bee 400,and as much or a tiny bit more than the AB 800. Check the side-by side tests: product review | adorama flashpoint studio gear | Clickin MomsClickin Moms

The Flashpoint 320M CONSISTENTLY puts out one full f/stop MORE light than the Alien Bee 400 does. Five feet, no reflector, Sekonic flash meter, ISO 100.

It actually does say that doesn't it? I could understand the misunderstanding that naturally occurs if metering with the provided reflectors, but this article implies no reflector (without actually saying those words - it says no umbrella or softbox). Yet, it certainly is impossible to believe one stop more power. If true, then they can't even get their 150 ws spec right. I don't always believe all I read on the internet.

Paul Buff has a Expected Output page at
Paul C. Buff - Expected Output
It shows metered values for all his lights with many modifiers.

It does not have an entry for no reflector, but it does say the B400 meters f/8 + 0.7 stops in a softbox at five feet.
It is a reflector of sorts, but I'm thinking the diffusion fabric is not going to strengthen the output.

Price of two Alien Bee 400 flashes? $500. Price for five Flashpoint 320M units? $500. Again, $99 for the same output as a $279 offshore-made Alien Bee.

No, made in Nashville by Americans. Design is done here, by Paul Buff himself, but many/most parts are manufactured in Asia. What isn't now?

Price, yes, you've got me, but of course, some of the cost comes later. If I only had $100, these would appeal. And sure, there are worse choice lights for starting out. Even after these are replaced with better units, these could be dragged out of the closet and used now and then when an additional light was needed.

 

[DustinB]

I use these: Amazon.com : StudioPRO Double 600W/s Monolight Photography Photo Studio Strobe Lighting Two 300W/s Monolights with Softboxes : Photographic Lighting Soft Boxes : Camera & Photo

Pretty good for the money, stands are kinda cheap, you can replace the flash tubes. Softboxes are pretty good quality. The good thing is they use a bowens mount, which will allow you to get aftermarket modifiers that use the same mount. Other softboxes such as larger or different shapes, beauty dishes, you can use umbrellas with them. I use this set with a regular flash for backlighting. I also have a couples sizes of the neewer 5 in 1 reflectors they sell on amazon.

I trigger the lights with a yongnuo setup of the 622n-tx and a few 622n's.

 

[dannylightning]

those look pretty nice and the wireless flash triggers are also pretty cool. Thanks..

 

[KmH]

Watts and watt-seconds are not the same thing when it comes to taking about photographic lighting power.
Plus camera built in and hot shoe mounted flash units typically specify flash power using a GN or Guide Number.
There is no conversion formula to convert GN to watts or to watt-seconds.
However, for photography we can use the GN number with this formula - GN = distance × f-number
Some basic algebra then lets us derive 2 additional formulas:
Distance = GN / f-number
F-number = GN / distance

A watt is typically used to describe the power of a constant light.
A watt is 1 joule of energy emitted over a period of 1 second.
Unfortunately a watt-second technically also means 1 joule of energy emitted over 1 second.
The unfortunate part is flash units - camera built in, hot shoe and studio type flash units (strobes) - deliver all their power in time spans (duration) of a fraction of a second.

Most camera hot shoe flash and built in flash units set to full power deliver the entire flash in about 1/1000 of a second. Plus, as the power output level is reduced from full power the flash duration gets shorter. The duration of the flash of light from a Nikon SB-700 set to 1/16th power is about 1/10,000 of a second.
From the Nikon SB-700 user manual:

Flash duration (approx.)
1/1042 sec. at M1/1 (full) output
1/1136 sec. at M1/2 output
1/2857 sec. at M1/4 output
1/5714 sec. at M1/8 output
1/10000 sec. at M1/16 output
1/18182 sec. at M1/32 output
1/25000 sec. at M1/64 output
1/40000 sec. at M1/128 output