Superzoom, slayer of the SLR?

[Bifurcator]

A crop is of the field of view of the lens. When the lens magnifies it does so in part by cropping it's own field of view.

Yeah, I guess you can think of it that way. You said "crop on the sensor" tho so I thought I would add the needed correction.

 

[Battou]

I didn't miss the point. You belief is wrong. Kind of like the belief in Military Intelligence. Ain't never happened, ain't happening now and it ain't never gonna happen.

Obviously you did, Otherwise you would not be using analogies to argue a point that is in fact the base of my complaint. You are right the two classes of cameras are for two different needs. So why is it that camera manufacturers are pushing P&S cameras to a range both optically and controlability that only an SLR should be able to satisfy wile at the same time dumbing down SLR's and making them idiot proof?


If you sit back and think about it, Compact point and shoot cameras have been a prooving ground and refining aria for new technology that once proven in functionality and practicality is worked into the upperclass SLR for years now. Is it really that hard to fathom that it's entirely possible that these monsterous yet compact lenses on the Superzoom P-shooters is a trial in fixed lens technology that once reach a certain level of range and optical preformance be applied to the SLR. If you take into account the idiot proofing of SLR's and making them as easy to use as a standard P&S by default, I can see only one conclution. A fixed lens, full frame dSLR with the option of full manual control for the professional market and maybe a couple fixed lens, crop frame dSLRs with the option of full manual control for the hobbiest/amature market.

 

[Bifurcator]

I can see only one conclution. A fixed lens, full frame dSLR with the option of full manual control for the professional market and maybe a couple fixed lens, crop frame dSLRs with the option of full manual control for the hobbiest/amature market.

So you think they're going to do away with their #1 cash cow of aftermarket lens sales?

I don't. That would be stuuuuuuupid.

 

[Battou]

So you think they're going to do away with their #1 cash cow of aftermarket lens sales?

I don't. That would be stuuuuuuupid.

Yes I do, and I agree with you that would be a mistake of epic proportion, But anywho.

 

[table1349]

Obviously you did, Otherwise you would not be using analogies to argue a point that is in fact the base of my complaint. You are right the two classes of cameras are for two different needs. So why is it that camera manufacturers are pushing P&S cameras to a range both optically and controlability that only an SLR should be able to satisfy wile at the same time dumbing down SLR's and making them idiot proof?


If you sit back and think about it, Compact point and shoot cameras have been a prooving ground and refining aria for new technology that once proven in functionality and practicality is worked into the upperclass SLR for years now. Is it really that hard to fathom that it's entirely possible that these monsterous yet compact lenses on the Superzoom P-shooters is a trial in fixed lens technology that once reach a certain level of range and optical preformance be applied to the SLR. If you take into account the idiot proofing of SLR's and making them as easy to use as a standard P&S by default, I can see only one conclution. A fixed lens, full frame dSLR with the option of full manual control for the professional market and maybe a couple fixed lens, crop frame dSLRs with the option of full manual control for the hobbiest/amature market.

You need to go back and do a little research on cameras and improvements. Infact a good study of the history of invention, manufacturing would be good. That is were your whole thought process breaks down, you have it backwards. Improvements are a trickle down effect, not trickle up.

I will ask once again, since you never seem to address this, what point and shoot comes close to a 1D MIII, 1Ds MIII, D3, etc. in function? NONE.

30 years ago only luxury cars had radios as OEM equipment. They had to be ordered with non luxury cars. Now you can't find a car on the lot without a radio. They upgraded the standards for the non luxury vehicle when things got cheap enough to do so. Find a car without electric windows and door locks. Same thing there.

Did you think that P&S cameras were always going to be 6 meg cameras with only basic functions. As technology advances in the DSLR's and the cost comes down to produce that technology they will add it to the lower end DSLR and then to the P&S. Thats the way of the world in all areas of manufacturing. Enginerring anything is a costly, time consuming process. Manufactures don't look at improvements and say lets see what we can do for the low profit item and then re-enginere it for the high end. They design for the best and then when production is up and running and costs come down then they look at how they can change it and fit it into the lesser product at a decent cost.

As for a proving ground, what has been created, and proven on a P&S that was moved over to the DSLR. Lack of shutter lag? Truely highquality fast glass? FPS? High ISO noise reduction? The only thing that has come over are the "this would be cool" sell me gimics like Live view and now video.

And before you go into how great these are stop and think. Other than for closeup/macro work on a tripod how many people do you really see shooting a DSLR at arms length using live view full time. Exactly. Same thing with video. If someone is serious about video capabilities they buy a video camera. All your going to get from a DSLR video is some youtube quality stuff of some guy pucking in his buddies car or falling off his skateboard onto his face.

P&S cameras will continue to improve, but then so will DSLR's. The high priced technology feeds the DSLR market and trickles down to the lower end DSLR's and then the P&S.

 

[Overread]

And before you go into how great these are stop and think. Other than for closeup/macro work on a tripod how many people do you really see shooting a DSLR at arms length using live view full time. Exactly. Same thing with video. If someone is serious about video capabilities they buy a video camera. All your going to get from a DSLR video is some youtube quality stuff of some guy pucking in his buddies car or falling off his skateboard onto his face.

but remember a DSLR is not a refined tool - it is an advanced photographic tool, but it is not specialized for a specific use in the same way as say a sports car is specialized for speed.

So you get features for macro that studio shooters won't ever touch - video that the press will use - mirror lock up that sports photographers won't use....
the list goes on

*ps examples given are only rough - none are perfect of course*

 

[Bifurcator]

All your going to get from a DSLR video is some youtube quality stuff of some guy pucking in his buddies car or falling off his skateboard onto his face.

I've created TOP quality TV commercials with dSLRs (actually bridge cameras). The Matrix "bullet-time" effect was created with dSLRs. If we keep getting 1080P and 1080i in models with interchangeable lenses I can guarantee there will be a critically acclaimed film that uses them in at least one or two scenes. I know I would and I'm a known factor in Japanese film-making circles.

Basically you're saying everyone including yourself who uses a dSLR is a simpleton without a thought in their head.

--
(BTW there's a TV show which is still (now 4th season) produced on nothing more than a few laptops and 4 Konica/Minolta A2's)

 

[Mystwalker]

That "superzoom" is just a P&S with a LONG zoom.

It's price is very tempting though - for $350, I would not mind carrying one around in pocket.

BUT it will not replace my 30D - yet. I originally jumped to DSLR due to shutter lag of P&S - not read anything that tell me current P&S have solved this problem.

Also, to my eyes, there is a IQ difference between P&S vs DSLR. I guess this is an area that P&S can easily improve, but that will increase price of P&S.

Lastly, unless it's a "long" lens (100-500, 150-500), I do not think I can use a walk around that has variable "f".

 

[Mike_E]

UMM, 30 years ago 35mm was used by most people but if you wanted the best you went to 4X5 or even 8x10.

Then as now size matters.

(and no, motion is this case is a bad thing!) :lmao::lmao::lmao:

 

[Bifurcator]

LOL!

"Sigma announces the development of a 14 megapixel high definition digital camera, packing the full spec of a DSLR into the body of a compact camera."​

http://www.dpreview.com/news/0809/08092305sigma_dp2.asp

 

[Overread]

I rather like that!
and it has a hotshoe as well so one can use a (sigma) flashgun - looks like a very nice bridge type compact for a photographer!

 

[Bifurcator]

It's not a bridge type though. It's a compact through and through.

 

[Bifurcator]

Here's some info on the Foveon X3: http://www.foveon.com/article.php?a=67

 

[table1349]

I've created TOP quality TV commercials with dSLRs (actually bridge cameras). The Matrix "bullet-time" effect was created with dSLRs. If we keep getting 1080P and 1080i in models with interchangeable lenses I can guarantee there will be a critically acclaimed film that uses them in at least one or two scenes. I know I would and I'm a known factor in Japanese film-making circles.

Basically you're saying everyone including yourself who uses a dSLR is a simpleton without a thought in their head.

--
(BTW there's a TV show which is still (now 4th season) produced on nothing more than a few laptops and 4 Konica/Minolta A2's)

Really, which one?

The concept that this thread is about is what will become the norm, not the unusual. There have been many very accomplished and highly regarded photographers over they years that took and instamatic in the days of film or a cheap little P&S now and done a project. It did not however turn into a replacement for their normal, day to day shooting gear.


Call me when Dreamworks Studio, MGM, Sony, Universal, Warner, Paramount, 20th Century Fox, Disney or New Line Cinema replace their current production equipment with the D90 or the 5D MII. Until then your are just talking about the Heisenberg Compensator of the some day in the future production world. Until then I will excitedly be waiting to see if it is the Teletubbies, a manga cartoon or the next Godzilla movie that is filmed in it's entirety on a DSLR.

 

[usayit]

LOL!
Sigma announces the development of a 14 megapixel high definition digital camera, packing the full spec of a DSLR into the body of a compact camera.

http://www.dpreview.com/news/0809/08092305sigma_dp2.asp

I think that sigma is going to be a hard sell.

* Their retail channels are slim... not too many camera shops carry sigma.
* I believe their offerings are going to be challenged by this:
http://www.dpreview.com/news/0809/08092208olympus_micro_four_thirds.asp

All olympus has to do is follow through and actually deliver the final product.