The BIG LIE.

[Designer]

As Forrest says, "Stupid is as Stupid does."

Who are you calling "stupid"?

I know it wouldn't be the news reporters because they have all written the word "BANNED".

I know it can't be me because your post would be offensive to a fellow TPF-er.

It CERTAINLY is not the light-bulb manufacturers, because they got the legislation that they asked for (and paid for, indirectly).

It COULD be the legislators, but then they only do what is asked of them, rarely thinking past the next campaign donation check.

Who is left?

 

[GlennT]

One of our Facilities Techs recently gave me some casual information based on his observations within our company. CFLs don't like heat. More precisely, the ballasts don't like heat, and consistent with that, any bulbs that are inverted burn out faster. Those installed in an enclosed fixture burn out faster. Those installed in enclosed fixtures and inverted burn out fastest.

That's consistent with what I've seen at home. Those installed inverted in ceiling fans or in ceiling mounted fixtures in the basement burn out the fastest. The ceiling fan fixtures are the worst. Although not fully enclosed, everything is pointed downward, leaving nowhere for heat to go except right up to the ballast. We have a few enclosed fixtures that have the bulbs horizontal; 2nd most problematic. We haven't had any problems with those in standard table lamps.

I've never cared for CFLs. They've made indoor photography difficult in homes that have mismatched bulbs, and thus varying color temps. I don't like that they have mercury in them. They cost too much. They take too long to warm up, and many of them buzz. We have several in our home, and they've definitely improved, but I recently started swapping them all out for LEDs.

 

[pgriz]

Pretty much every manufactured product has a "performance" space in which it usually meets "the standard" or other criteria. Outside of that performance space, the manufactured item usually does a poor job. I am thinking that the performance space of incandescents is quite different from that of CFL's, and yet we are encouraged to think of them as interchangeable. GlennT has make some interesting observations. So perhaps the question is under which set of conditions do the CFL's reach their designed durability? If those conditions are not exactly the the ones under which the lamps are generally used, then I would expect them to perform less well. The following article (Longevity of light bulbs and how to make them last longer RobAid) talks about some of the factors that affect the durability: on-off cycle, temperature, operating voltage, start-up voltage, light position, vibration.

 

[soufiej]

As Forrest says, "Stupid is as Stupid does."

Who are you calling "stupid"?

I know it wouldn't be the news reporters because they have all written the word "BANNED".

I know it can't be me because your post would be offensive to a fellow TPF-er.

It CERTAINLY is not the light-bulb manufacturers, because they got the legislation that they asked for (and paid for, indirectly).

It COULD be the legislators, but then they only do what is asked of them, rarely thinking past the next campaign donation check.

Who is left?

All those uncertainties! Maybe you don't know as much as you think you know.

Glenn's right, of course. I suppose most consumers never bother to look at the information provided when they buy a lamp. Numerous styles of lamps do not care to be used base upwards and those lamps should have a warning which indicates "Burn Base Down Only". The CFL's have never cared for being used in a base upwards condition. It was one of our first lessons when I was doing lighting for live theatre. A 500 or 1k watt specialized lamp can get expensive and you want them to last as long as possible. Yet a lot of newbies would just grab a fixture and not check whether the lamp suited the usage.

An enclosed fixture doesn't allow heat to escape, which will cause premature failure in any lamp. Special lamps used in special sockets are needed for enclosed fixtures. Vibration, I would hope, is a no brainer and everyone at least sort of knows you'll need a specialized lamp for that purpose. If you don't at first, you certainly should by the third lamp replacement. "Ruggedized" lamps are great in your car's headlights and your ceiling fans. You must not touch the glass envelope of a halogen lamp with your bare fingers. The oils from your skin will collect on the glass and cause premature failure.

Of course, over Voltaging any electronic device will cut short its life. Surges take their toll. Using a dimmer and ramping the lamp up to its operating Voltage will minimize shock to the lamp. Most lamps "burn out" when they are hit with the first blast of Voltage and seldom die while they are in constant use. Power up a lamp with a dimmer and run it at low Voltage and that cheapo incandescent lamp might last 25 years. Running a dimmable lamp at less than 100% will greatly extend its life. Lamps are subject to those start up surges from appliances within the house (and, as I said, even from your neighbor's house in some cases) and these under/over Voltage conditions will shorten the life of a lamp, and your TV and your HT receiver and DVR, etc.

Most people though buy and use lamps like they buy and use low fat diary products. They never read the label to see what actually is going on.

 

[Ron Evers]

In short, you are saying the CFLs are not a viable replacement for incandescent bulbs.

BTW, here in the Great White North, we rely on the heat from incandescent bulbs to keep us warm in winter.

 

[soufiej]

In short, you are saying the CFLs are not a viable replacement for incandescent bulbs.

BTW, here in the Great White North, we rely on the heat from incandescent bulbs to keep us warm in winter.

Of course I'm NOT saying that. You're saying that because, I guess, after all this, you have never read any of the information printed on a lamp or its packaging. All types of lamps have certain restrictions and recommendations. If you ignore them, they break early. If you take proper care of them, they last for years - even the cheap and dirty incandescents that Congress DID NOT BAN!

 

[Austin Greene]

Not to mention the CFL's contain mercury. Really government? You outlaw 100W incandescent bulbs which were safe and last no less than CFLs and make us use a bulb with mercury?

Not saying CFL's are the solution, but keep in mind the main reason why we moved off of incandescent: we're quickly running out of tungsten.

LED seems to be the way to go.

 

[Designer]

BTW, here in the Great White North, we rely on the heat from incandescent bulbs to keep us warm in winter.

Exactly! For about 9 months out of the year, the excess heat from incandescent bulbs is NOT wasted!

THE HEAT IS NOT WASTED!

 

[Designer]

Congress DID NOT BAN!

Congress DID BAN any bulb that JUST HAPPENED to not meet their NEW STANDARDS, which were WRITTEN BY the bulb manufacturers.

 

[soufiej]

Congress DID NOT BAN!

Congress DID BAN any bulb that JUST HAPPENED to not meet their NEW STANDARDS, which were WRITTEN BY the bulb manufacturers.

Aren't you missing Rushbo?

 

[Designer]

Aren't you missing Rushbo?

What?

 

[Ron Evers]

What I have learned here.

CFLs may last the advertised life if they are mounted base down & not in an enclosed space.

Rules them out as a viable alternative to incandescent in our household where 90% of our usage does not meet that criteria.

 

[photoguy99]

Yes. CFLs are a poor fit for ordinary household usage patterns. They're improving, but LEDs seem to be a better choice these days.

Incandescents that meet the efficiency standards exist.

Separating "heating" functions from "lighting" functions is a pretty good idea, no matter where you live. For those days when you need heat but not light, or vice versa, you know.

Governments writing efficiency standards (and cleanliness standards, and so on and so forth) to drive consumer and manufacturer behavior has been with us a long time, and it's generally produced pretty good results in the end. Relying on "the market" to take care of these things is demonstrably a terrible idea.

 

[soufiej]

What I have learned here.

CFLs may last the advertised life if they are mounted base down & not in an enclosed space.

Rules them out as a viable alternative to incandescent in our household where 90% of our usage does not meet that criteria.

But that is NOT the fault of the CFL. If you use a CFL in an inappropriate manner, that's your fault. Dated or not.

You have no table lamps in your house? Aren't they a base-down fixture? Don't they have sufficient ventilation to draw heat away from the lamp?

 

[soufiej]

[QUOTE="photoguy99, post: 3455839, member: 163625"
Governments writing efficiency standards (and cleanliness standards, and so on and so forth) to drive consumer and manufacturer behavior has been with us a long time, and it's generally produced pretty good results in the end. Relying on "the market" to take care of these things is demonstrably a terrible idea.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, I particularly like the one "Employees must wash hands before returning to work". Until you try to use the empty soap dispenser. Then, maybe, you'll just have iced tea while you decide where you're actually going to eat.