What's new

The changing field of professional cameras

Excuses! It sounds like your BIAS is showing.

skieur

How can I be biased about ALL of the cameras? And I find it funny that you call legitimate issues with the shots excuses. Last time I checked, a comparison has only 1 variable, the camera. Not the time of day, height, angle, etc etc etc. If you can't admit the fact that these are half assed examples, you would be the one making biased excuses.

Furthermore, the examples at high ISOs contradict your argument. The image looks posterized @ 1600 and higher.

OK, so explain how these shots taken under "controlled conditions" as indicated are all "awful or rushed through the process".....whatever you mean by process. That seems to me to be just a biased opinion of the testing as in, they are all awful because they contradict your views.

These supposed "half-assed examples" according to you are done with all the cameras, so if your "favourite camera" does not show up better than any other than the problem is your camera.

skieur

Instead of assuming, look for yourself. I don't have a "favorite" camera. I'm not 10 years old. Especially since you can see that I own a Nikon and defended the Canon. Brand loyalty is for sheep. Look at the 5D Mark II picture of the house side by side with the A77 picture of the house.The cameras are about 15 ft away from eachother, at different heights, and different times of day(possibly year). You call these controlled?
 
Last edited:
OK, so explain how these shots taken under "controlled conditions" as indicated are all "awful or rushed through the process".....whatever you mean by process. That seems to me to be just a biased opinion of the testing as in, they are all awful because they contradict your views.

These supposed "half-assed examples" according to you are done with all the cameras, so if your "favourite camera" does not show up better than any other than the problem is your camera.

skieur

I'm sorry but after reading all of your responses to your own, biased, thread... I can only conclude that you are thick headed. I've already pointed out the fact that all of these 'controlled' 'tests' were done so with different lenses! Hopefully you understand the implications of that. The comparisons are completely invalid!

If for some reason you still find validation in the results provided by the link you provided, the ONLY comparison from that site I even bothered to look at, the D7000 and the A77, showed results of the 'Still-Life ISO1600' and higher shots (the only comparisons I bothered looking at) favoring the D7000 over the A77. If the A77 is 'better' than the other camera bodies as you mentioned, then the D7000 MUST be better than the D3x and everyone knows this is true! :lol:
 
Skieur, I would not use the A77 for wedding photography, and here's why:

The images are noisy as **** at ISO 1600 compared to the 5D2, and the EVF is not comparable to an OVF in low light.
 
I'm not sure it is ever truly possible to do a controlled realistic comparison test. In print magazines or online it's not possible to show photos in their native size and resolution. The best that anyone can do is to show it at 100%, which will of course show the noise in all it's...umm 'glory'. Even the files I have from my 645D will show noise at high ISO's when I look at 100% (it only goes to 1600 and handles noise better than a hassleblad, but then the hassie is predominantly a studio camera whereas the Pentax is aimed mainly at landscape). No-one seriously looks at photos at 100% unless they are pixelpeeping and when you look at a printed picture you generally don't look at it at 100%.

Comparing Nikon, Canon and Sony's efforts re noise to Hassleblad is not a valid comparison. The Hassie is a studio camera so Hasselblad wouldn't have seen high ISO as a priority.

Skieur, you say that the features such as in camera HDR and sweep panorama would be useful to wedding photographers. I would NEVER hire a wedding photographer who used these 'features' which are fairly gimmicky and are definitely not aimed at pro photographers. They are for the so-called facebook photographers only. These in-camera features will be in jpeg only with little or no control over compression rates and other important areas. No serious professional photographer would use these consumer effects. They would shoot in raw and stitch a panorama. I would never leave my camera do this for me when you have people in the frame too as it is asking for all sorts of problems like distortion and chopping people's arms off in the photo. The photographer that shot my wedding 8 years ago did a panoramic which he shot in raw and stitched and was all shot handheld on a gloomy day, and that was the shot we had framed.

The Sony is definitely not a pro camera. Sony doesn't pitch it that way. The closest thing was the Alpha 900 which was a good camera with some great Zeiss glass available for it. I had that camera with the Zeiss 24-70 and it was superb: I lent it to my brother in law and it was stolen in a break in. That was the closest thing that Sony have come to having a pro camera. It looks sadly like they have given up on the pro market, which is a pity as some of their glass like the 70 - 200 G and the 16-35 and 24-70 CZ lenses are great glass.
 
Why are we inserting the D3x into a high iso comparison, when it only goes natively to 1600? The D3s is Nikon's TRUE top end pro body, even though it's less expensive, it's the better all around performer. The D3x is only good in the studio.

Well he is asserting that the A77 is a pro camera.. already reaching quite a bit here

I can't believe I read 3 pages of this thread.
 
In sports photography a 1/10 second lag is HUGE. Positively HUGE. Unworkably long and slow...

You obviously are not familiar with how shooting sports actually happens in the real world.

A viewfinder that lags behind the subject by 1/10 of a second is a joke.

Well, since neither the Canon 1DS Mark III and the Nikon D3S cannot come close to this speed in full resolution, it is hardly a joke, unless the joke is on the slower Nikon and Canon cameras mentioned.

skieur
 
Skieur, I would not use the A77 for wedding photography, and here's why:

The images are noisy as **** at ISO 1600 compared to the 5D2, and the EVF is not comparable to an OVF in low light.

If you look at the images side by side on the site I mentioned paying attention to the book she is reading and the wine glass nearby, both are sharper and more detailed in the A77 image and noise looks a slight bit worse on the Canon 5D 2.

This is not your standard EVF and it is better than the OVF in low light due to the OLED technology.

skieur
 
How can I be biased about ALL of the cameras? And I find it funny that you call legitimate issues with the shots excuses. Last time I checked, a comparison has only 1 variable, the camera. Not the time of day, height, angle, etc etc etc. If you can't admit the fact that these are half assed examples, you would be the one making biased excuses.

Furthermore, the examples at high ISOs contradict your argument. The image looks posterized @ 1600 and higher.

OK, so explain how these shots taken under "controlled conditions" as indicated are all "awful or rushed through the process".....whatever you mean by process. That seems to me to be just a biased opinion of the testing as in, they are all awful because they contradict your views.

These supposed "half-assed examples" according to you are done with all the cameras, so if your "favourite camera" does not show up better than any other than the problem is your camera.

skieur

Instead of assuming, look for yourself. I don't have a "favorite" camera. I'm not 10 years old. Especially since you can see that I own a Nikon and defended the Canon. Brand loyalty is for sheep. Look at the 5D Mark II picture of the house side by side with the A77 picture of the house.The cameras are about 15 ft away from eachother, at different heights, and different times of day(possibly year). You call these controlled?

I am looking at the photo of the girl in the green outfit. There is more in that image..ie book, print, wine glass, texture etc and makes a more valid comparison shot for all cameras.

skieur
 
In sports photography a 1/10 second lag is HUGE. Positively HUGE. Unworkably long and slow...You obviously are not familiar with how shooting sports actually happens in the real world.A viewfinder that lags behind the subject by 1/10 of a second is a joke.
Well, since neither the Canon 1DS Mark III and the Nikon D3S cannot come close to this speed in full resolution, it is hardly a joke, unless the joke is on the slower Nikon and Canon cameras mentioned.skieur
What's the point of the speed if you miss the shot or the focus?
 
Skieur, I would not use the A77 for wedding photography, and here's why:

The images are noisy as **** at ISO 1600 compared to the 5D2, and the EVF is not comparable to an OVF in low light.

If you look at the images side by side on the site I mentioned paying attention to the book she is reading and the wine glass nearby, both are sharper and more detailed in the A77 image and noise looks a slight bit worse on the Canon 5D 2.

This is not your standard EVF and it is better than the OVF in low light due to the OLED technology.

skieur

Yeah, the images may look less noisy on the A77, if you're either drunk or partially blind.
 
OK, so explain how these shots taken under "controlled conditions" as indicated are all "awful or rushed through the process".....whatever you mean by process. That seems to me to be just a biased opinion of the testing as in, they are all awful because they contradict your views.

These supposed "half-assed examples" according to you are done with all the cameras, so if your "favourite camera" does not show up better than any other than the problem is your camera.

skieur

Instead of assuming, look for yourself. I don't have a "favorite" camera. I'm not 10 years old. Especially since you can see that I own a Nikon and defended the Canon. Brand loyalty is for sheep. Look at the 5D Mark II picture of the house side by side with the A77 picture of the house.The cameras are about 15 ft away from eachother, at different heights, and different times of day(possibly year). You call these controlled?

I am looking at the photo of the girl in the green outfit. There is more in that image..ie book, print, wine glass, texture etc and makes a more valid comparison shot for all cameras.

skieur

Haha and I'm the biased one. Ignore the example I just mentioned because it's detrimental to your case, and bring attention to another image. One non-credible image makes all images non-credible. And talking about high ISO, the A77 shows signs of posterization. No bueno. The comparison is better left up to your real world experience, not the experience of a website that can't take sharp pictures or use the same lenses.
 
The Sony is not marketed as a pro camera, it's listed as being more in the enthusiast/semi-pro line. It's build is nowhere near the solid quality of either the Nikon or the Canons you are trying to compare them to. Take that Sony out in one rainstorm and you may soon notice why the others are "Pro" cameras with their weather resistant sealing.

If you put photos side by side from these cameras you will find very little difference. They are equally sharp with similar noise levels at very high ISO. Canon tends to have cooler colours than Nikon and Sony but that is a matter of taste.

The image quality comparisons don't match up well once you get up into the ISOs over 1600. You also lose some of it's functions when you start getting up into the higher frame rates, like live view. Here's one quote on the image quality from an online review about the image quality.. " At ISO 1600 and above, the destructive effects of the A77's noise reduction setting become more apparent and it is obvious that at ISO 3200 and 6400, the A77 isn't producing 24MP' worth of actual resolution "

It is a good camera, but it's not anywhere near the Nikon and Canon pro class cameras.

The Sony A77 is dust and weather sealed as in both body, dials and lens and I have not seen any posts of problems with it in a rainstorm. It is also heftier than the other models with a magnesium alloy body

With photos side by side at ISO 1600 and ISO 3200, print was sharper on the Sony A77, than on the Canon 5D MarkII. Go to imaging-resource and check out the back of the book in the photo.

skieur

.


Yet it is not proven in the studio, the A55 is a dog in the studio A77 could be as bad
 
In sports photography a 1/10 second lag is HUGE. Positively HUGE. Unworkably long and slow...

You obviously are not familiar with how shooting sports actually happens in the real world.

A viewfinder that lags behind the subject by 1/10 of a second is a joke.

Well, since neither the Canon 1DS Mark III and the Nikon D3S cannot come close to this speed in full resolution, it is hardly a joke, unless the joke is on the slower Nikon and Canon cameras mentioned.

skieur

This is probably why the other cameras you mention employ an OPTICAL view finder... zero lag.
 
I think that I understand where you were going with this thread, skieur. Sony's "top" camera is now the A77, fixed-mirror, crop-sensor camera, with Sony's newest 24.6 megapixel sensor in it. However, I do not really think that Sony's top model camera automatically qualifies it as a "pro camera". To me, the term "pro camera" has always meant a "flagship-level" camera, ie, the BEST-possible technology and construction, and reliability and ruggedness, that the camera's maker can muster. So, over the past decades, that would encompass cameras like the Nikon F and F2, Nikon F3,F4,and F5, and the Canon F1 and F1-n, then the EOS-1, and then in modern times the Nikon 1-digit series cameras, and the Canon 1-digit series of bodies.

Of course, over the past decades there have been high-end AMATEUR-oriented camera models that have found widespread professional use. Nikon's FM- and FE- series camera models were a great example of "high-end amateur" cameras that were used by tens of thousands of professionals for many years. Same with the later N90,N90s,and F100 film cameras.

While the Canon 5D and 5D-II have found wide acceptance among wedding and social photographers...these are not really "professional cameras" in the "flagship" sense of the word--they are in fact, really quite stripped-down, very BASIC cameras, lacking in many features found in lower-cost cameras from multiple makers. However, if the term professional camera simply means "in use by quite a few professional photographers," then the Canon 5D and 5D-II, as well as the Nikon D700, and D300 and D300s would also qualify as "professional cameras." Sony however, does not have much in the way of professional acceptance or use...their user base is new,and in part some of Minolta's old user base, and is for the most part I think, amateurs and people who are just entering into the d-slr market. If your intent was to lump the A77 into the "professional camera" segment, it would ONLY be based upon the megapixel count of the camera, because it does not have a wide professional photographer user base like the Canon 5D series has, or the Nikon cameras have. Sony's efforts in the A900 and A850 models, full-frame, simple, great design, good viewfinders, low-tech bodies (no live view, no video) fell FLAT, and now Sony has regrouped and is trying to push fixed-mirror cameras onto consumers. They are trying to convince people that their new technology is an "advantage", and one worth paying for. I simply do not think that bearing the highest-ranking model number makes the Sony A77 a "professional camera".
 
Instead of assuming, look for yourself. I don't have a "favorite" camera. I'm not 10 years old. Especially since you can see that I own a Nikon and defended the Canon. Brand loyalty is for sheep. Look at the 5D Mark II picture of the house side by side with the A77 picture of the house.The cameras are about 15 ft away from eachother, at different heights, and different times of day(possibly year). You call these controlled?

I am looking at the photo of the girl in the green outfit. There is more in that image..ie book, print, wine glass, texture etc and makes a more valid comparison shot for all cameras.

skieur

Haha and I'm the biased one. Ignore the example I just mentioned because it's detrimental to your case, and bring attention to another image. One non-credible image makes all images non-credible. And talking about high ISO, the A77 shows signs of posterization. No bueno. The comparison is better left up to your real world experience, not the experience of a website that can't take sharp pictures or use the same lenses.

Now, you are getting silly! This thread is about the 3 cameras I mentioned at the beginning as well as for consistency the photos of the girl and other items in that scene at different ISOs on the website for the reasons I have mentioned. What posterization? Where? And you are still blaming the web site for results that you are not happy with.

skieur
 

Create an account or login to comment

You must be a member in order to leave a comment

Create account

Create an account on our community. It's easy!

Log in

Already have an account? Log in here.

New Topics

Back
Top Bottom