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Our schools in my hometown were all named after Presidents; I went to McKinley and Cleveland, then Harding and Taft. Then I taught for a few years at Garfield. They've built new schools and dropped almost all those names, now they're just boring and generic and I don't know why they stopped the tradition.
 
I wish you all a good night and a pleasant tomorrow. Here's hoping the buffer got fixed today. But I wouldn't bet a dime that it did.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk
Maybe you should see about getting it fixed ... it does relates to your job.
 
I work in higher ed and I have opinions about this conversation!

I'm also half blind with exhaustion at the moment so y'all will have to wait ;)

The one story I will relate before I turn off the light: My students, many of which are the first in their families to go to college, often ask me for advice about school and careers. In one class, a student asked me what major I would recommend. Mind you, I work at a community college where many students have to choose something, anything, when they apply, but very often switch majors after they've had a chance to talk to a counselor or figure out better what they want to do. So this student was thinking of changing his major.

"What is your goal?" I asked.

"You mean, when do I want to graduate?"

"No," I said, "What is your purpose in getting a degree, any degree? Do you want to then go to a 4-year and get a Bachelors? Do you want to go straight into the workforce? Do you want to follow a passion or just make more money and have a more comfortable life than you have now?"

"Oh," he said, "I just want a good job so I can have a nice house and provide for a family."

"Okay, then. Become a welder."

He was shocked. The entire class then embarked on a discussion of professions and trades and the purposes of education other than job training, and planning the next few years of their lives very strategically (it was definitely a "do as I say, not as I have done" sort of discussion on my part ;) )

As for how schools should be a safe place - this is absolutely correct. And yet, being trained in how to behave in an active shooter situation is apparently now a regular and required part of my work. (I have the certificate for this round of training sessions to prove it.)
 
@limr You likely gave this class more "useful" education then anything they had received up to that point. Good for you!. I believe colleges today have become more interested in filling seats, than actually preparing the student for making a living.

Sad world we live in today. I grew up in a rural farming community. During my high school days the parking lot was filled with a lot of trucks, most of which had a gun rack in the back window, and rifle or two. No one thought much about it, and going on a killing spree at your school wasn't even on the radar. Not sure what has changed in the mentality of those who now seem to idolize the evil.
 
@limr You likely gave this class more "useful" education then anything they had received up to that point. Good for you!. I believe colleges today have become more interested in filling seats, than actually preparing the student for making a living.

Sad world we live in today. I grew up in a rural farming community. During my high school days the parking lot was filled with a lot of trucks, most of which had a gun rack in the back window, and rifle or two. No one thought much about it, and going on a killing spree at your school wasn't even on the radar. Not sure what has changed in the mentality of those who now seem to idolize the evil.

You know how I feel about guns, so I won't go into it now, but I do respect that in the community you grew up in (my Dad's rural Minnesota upbringing too), guns have a place. As far as the types of guns...

Besides that piece though...kids have life come at them at speeds that you and I (even being significantly younger) can't understand. The immersion in technology, the viral nature of news, 24/7 connections with peers and whoever else -- comes at a significant cost. There is significant stress and anxiety (and I mean legitimately clinical) in the younger generations that didn't exist before. We don't have appropriate support systems in place to prevent some of these tragedies, and sometimes red tape gets in the way.

I have a kid who could become Nikolas Cruz in my B period class. I might have a future Adam Lanza in my D period class. I shout the alarm and beat the drum, but Nikolas's parents don't want him in counseling because it makes their family look bad, and Adam's parents don't believe there is a problem. As the first line of defense, I've done all I can.

The problem is incredibly complex, and for whatever reason, we aren't willing, as a country, to tackle the problem head on. We're still at the thoughts and prayers stage.
 
Personally, in Gary's perfect world, he would like to see colleges place more emphasis on a liberal education with fewer majors. Gary sees college as a platform to explore the world ... all/most of the world ... the arts, the sciences, literature, peoples & cultures, foods, religions, mandatory P. E., travel ... the whole enchilada. In Gary's world college is a place for personal growth not just for education. Gary would like to see a hiring priority for educators that have worked in the private sector prior to teaching in public schools. A bonus for educators who have worked in the same field as they teach. Gary would like to see college as a preparation for life, not only the life of the student ... all life, your life, their life, the lives in other continents and even lives of other species.
 
@limr You likely gave this class more "useful" education then anything they had received up to that point. Good for you!. I believe colleges today have become more interested in filling seats, than actually preparing the student for making a living.

Well, I do believe the actual writing and critical thinking skills I had also taught them at that point were just as useful ;)

It is true that for a long time, enrollment has been more important to a lot of schools. If you ever want to read how this has been manipulated for the past 20-30 years (and, incidentally, why student debt has blown up as a problem so quickly), read this: The Invisible Force Behind College Admissions

However, there have been important distinctions between kinds of schools and the conflict over what the 'real' purpose of higher education is or should be. For much of our history, higher education was effectively restricted to a very limited population (yes, I'm going to say it, but relax and don't get your panties in a bunch - I'm talking about rich white men.) Then, slowly, more people gained access.

The push for enrollments came along with the push for increased access to higher education for many more segments of the population. When the market started demanding training beyond high school, more people wanted to go to college, and colleges, of course, wanted people to choose their school.

More people gaining access to education is never a bad thing. The way they gain access is the question, of course, and the strategies used over the years have sometimes been controversial.

Thing about creating more access is you then have to figure out what to do with the students once they're in.

The good thing is that schools - at least community colleges, anyway - are starting the push to gain not just enrollments, but to put major effort into keeping and graduating students. The buzzwords in community colleges these days are 'strategic enrollment management' and 'guided pathways.'

Students need clear pathways and methods to get in, learn what they need to learn, and then move on, either to the workforce or to a 4-year institution. As a matter of fact, I'm in the thick of one of the initiatives at our school that will help do this.

I don't believe that college is nothing more than job training. There are important skills and experiences that students gain in college that are difficult to gain elsewhere. It's true that not everyone is cut out for the traditional 4-year liberal arts education, but that also doesn't mean it's useless to get an English degree just because there aren't as many job options as there are for someone with a Marketing degree. There may not be as many clear direct pathways - for example, a Marketing degree leads to a marketing job, but that person can have a choice of any number of companies, types of industries, etc. An English degree seemingly only leads to an English teaching position or maybe a writer. However, if we look at the skills learned in a liberal arts major, we'd see that many of them - thinking, writing, communicating, analyzing, researching - are skills that are transferrable to many kinds of job.

Of course, many employers see "English major" and believe the person is some kind of disorganized flakey poet who doesn't know how to be professional. So some of the issues with finding jobs isn't necessarily the English degree, but rather the wider society's view of what English majors are like. (I was not even an English major, but I have experienced this attitude quite explicitly on more than one occasion when people see on my resume that I teach in the English dept.)

My BA is in Linguistics. I may not have become a traditional academic, which would seem to be the obvious career path for such a major, but I have used that degree every day of my professional life, both the content and the skills I learned.

(And for the record, a linguist isn't someone who just speaks other languages or knows a bunch of grammar. A linguist is very much like an anthropologist or sociologist. We embark on scientific studies of how language works. We learn research methods and analysis. Some of us do field work to study other languages and cultures. Some go into neurolinguistics and conduct very rigorous experiments to see how the brain physically processes language. Others focus on more applied disciplines, like studying second language acquisition and implications for education or cognition. It's much more scientific field than many people think it is.)
 
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I have seen both kinds of students: those who don't necessarily need a higher degree and they struggle with the material. They also struggle with the fact that they don't want to be in school but they've been told over and over again that they HAVE TO get a college degree if they ever want "to be someone in life." Lord, if I a dime for every student who told me that was their goal.

However, I've also seen the student who has been told that college is unnecessary, that a college degree with take them away from their family and community, and they shouldn't be so "uppity". Their struggle is different. They come to school and worlds that they never knew existed have just opened up for them and they are so excited about new possibilities that they didn't think were possible for them.

What it comes down to is this: you have to educate the person who is in front of you and understand that each person's education is going to look differently from someone else's.
 
I have one more 'rant' about college teachers, but that will have to wait :D
 
@limr You likely gave this class more "useful" education then anything they had received up to that point. Good for you!. I believe colleges today have become more interested in filling seats, than actually preparing the student for making a living.

Sad world we live in today. I grew up in a rural farming community. During my high school days the parking lot was filled with a lot of trucks, most of which had a gun rack in the back window, and rifle or two. No one thought much about it, and going on a killing spree at your school wasn't even on the radar. Not sure what has changed in the mentality of those who now seem to idolize the evil.

You know how I feel about guns, so I won't go into it now, but I do respect that in the community you grew up in (my Dad's rural Minnesota upbringing too), guns have a place. As far as the types of guns...

Besides that piece though...kids have life come at them at speeds that you and I (even being significantly younger) can't understand. The immersion in technology, the viral nature of news, 24/7 connections with peers and whoever else -- comes at a significant cost. There is significant stress and anxiety (and I mean legitimately clinical) in the younger generations that didn't exist before. We don't have appropriate support systems in place to prevent some of these tragedies, and sometimes red tape gets in the way.

I have a kid who could become Nikolas Cruz in my B period class. I might have a future Adam Lanza in my D period class. I shout the alarm and beat the drum, but Nikolas's parents don't want him in counseling because it makes their family look bad, and Adam's parents don't believe there is a problem. As the first line of defense, I've done all I can.

The problem is incredibly complex, and for whatever reason, we aren't willing, as a country, to tackle the problem head on. We're still at the thoughts and prayers stage.
Mary Lou, last night, was speaking to Gary about a kid that she considers a potential 'health hazard' to the school and/or the community in general. She reported him to the vice principal and to his case worker ... and nothing was done. Part of Mary Lou's responsibilities is internships and she got the kid an internship. The kid was hired after the internship and later fired. He sent malevolent emails to his former employer alluding to violent acts. His case worker requested him to stop ... but other than that, nothing was done. The kid is still in adult school and we taxpayers are footing his bill. Gary argued with Mary Lou that you can't apprehend a person for what you think might happened ... but that wasn't her point. There was no intervention of any type. None of us desire to live in a police state, but I think schools, all schools, should have a handful of psychologists on board whose job is to monitor students for potential violence. They can roam around and sit in classrooms to observe, chat with kids at lunch, even monitor the classes via video cameras. Of course the videos and such are all confidential. But in a public school the right to privacy should be significantly reduced in the wake of all this gun violence. Without action, things will not get better.

(Gary recognizes that there are three strikes against his plan: 1) N**, 2) U***** and 3) T********.)

Maybe Gary should delete that last line because it may inflame a political discussion, contrary to the TOS ... okay he fixed it. :cool-98:
 
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College isn't for everybody ... just as a trade isn't for everybody ... but if you do a job well, regardless of what that job maybe, you should be appreciated and given respect.

When Gary lived in Japan, he noticed that even the menial jobs were performed by those who were 'on top' of their work. Not only were they on top of their work, but they were sharply dressed exuding a form of self respect. They brought a certain dignity to their menial job. Gary respected that.
 
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@JonA_CT I agree that the problem is significantly more complex with multifaceted tendrils interwoven throughout daily life. We live in a world where tragedies are fodder for 24hr news for days. Kids play video games daily that glorify killing and maiming (I was almost 15 before I got to play Pong and over 21 for PacMan). Then you have the TV and Movies with their graphic special effects. In general there seems to be a desensitization of society. I saw a news report this morning on the FL kid, already they're trying to bring up his troubled past, the loss of his mother, etc. As if that should excuse him for his actions, but another commentator made a valid point, that once you cross the line from troubled youth to killer, it's to late. In our state as in many others there is no mental health help. The prisons are full of people that should be in a mental hospital, but there's no where to put them.

So yeah there's a lot of improving that needs to be done in everything from laws, to counseling, to awareness, to personal responsibity. Instead there will be a lot of talk and only minute action, just enough that politicians can look like they've done something.
 
@limr You likely gave this class more "useful" education then anything they had received up to that point. Good for you!. I believe colleges today have become more interested in filling seats, than actually preparing the student for making a living.

Well, I do believe the actual writing and critical thinking skills I had also taught them at that point were just as useful ;)

It is true that for a long time, enrollment has been more important to a lot of schools. If you ever want to read how this has been manipulated for the past 20-30 years (and, incidentally, why student debt has blown up as a problem so quickly), read this: The Invisible Force Behind College Admissions

However, there have been important distinctions between kinds of schools and the conflict over what the 'real' purpose of higher education is or should be. For much of our history, higher education was effectively restricted to a very limited population (yes, I'm going to say it, but relax and don't get your panties in a bunch - I'm talking about rich white men.) Then, slowly, more people gained access.

The push for enrollments came along with the push for increased access to higher education for many more segments of the population. When the market started demanding training beyond high school, more people wanted to go to college, and colleges, of course, wanted people to choose their school.

More people gaining access to education is never a bad thing. The way they gain access is the question, of course, and the strategies used over the years have sometimes been controversial.

Thing about creating more access is you then have to figure out what to do with the students once they're in.

The good thing is that schools - at least community colleges, anyway - are starting the push to gain not just enrollments, but to put major effort into keeping and graduating students. The buzzwords in community colleges these days are 'strategic enrollment management' and 'guided pathways.'

Students need clear pathways and methods to get in, learn what they need to learn, and then move on, either to the workforce or to a 4-year institution. As a matter of fact, I'm in the thick of one of the initiatives at our school that will help do this.

I don't believe that college is nothing more than job training. There are important skills and experiences that students gain in college that are difficult to gain elsewhere. It's true that not everyone is cut out for the traditional 4-year liberal arts education, but that also doesn't mean it's useless to get an English degree just because there aren't as many job options as there are for someone with a Marketing degree. There may not be as many clear direct pathways - for example, a Marketing degree leads to a marketing job, but that person can have a choice of any number of companies, types of industries, etc. An English degree seemingly only leads to an English teaching position or maybe a writer. However, if we look at the skills learned in a liberal arts major, we'd see that many of them - thinking, writing, communicating, analyzing, researching - are skills that are transferrable to many kinds of job.

Of course, many employers see "English major" and believe the person is some kind of disorganized flakey poet who doesn't know how to be professional. So some of the issues with finding jobs isn't necessarily the English degree, but rather the wider society's view of what English majors are like. (I was not even an English major, but I have experienced this attitude quite explicitly on more than one occasion when people see on my resume that I teach in the English dept.)

My BA is in Linguistics. I may not have become a traditional academic, which would seem to be the obvious career path for such a major, but I have used that degree every day of my professional life, both the content and the skills I learned.

(And for the record, a linguist isn't someone who just speaks other languages or knows a bunch of grammar. A linguist is very much like an anthropologist or sociologist. We embark on scientific studies of how language works. We learn research methods and analysis. Some of us do field work to study other languages and cultures. Some go into neurolinguistics and conduct very rigorous experiments to see how the brain physically processes language. Others focus on more applied disciplines, like studying second language acquisition and implications for education or cognition. It's much more scientific field than many people think it is.)
Well said.

I happen to know two people that went the English degree route and are both the stereotype that you describe. I scratched my head when the one said that they were disappointed that they couldn't find a job* in their field. Then, because of that, they decided to go on and get a master's degree in English, as well. Um, with the same results. See asterisk below.

I've also heard one person get extremely mad that no publishers would buy their work, despite sending out hundreds of letters and manuscripts a year to publishers. They were dumbfounded that they were always turned down, because they had the education and a masters in writing. "Ugh, like, why wouldn't they want my work, I have the education for it, my work speaks for itself!" Yeah, apparently not.

Similar to my field. My experience with some new engineers is that they expect to be working on really important things and be the center of attention just out of school without any effort or training. They don't know what they don't know, yet. It'll take them 5 or 6 years to start figuring this out, and then the rest of their careers trying to catch up. One young engineer-in-training working on a project with me asked why they couldn't do the writing, rather than just check the writing or do calculations. So, I said, "That's a very fair question, write these three sections for me." Well, they found out very quickly that they had no idea how to write the sections, despite having everything they needed in front of them, including previous templates they could have used. They just didn't have the experience or know-how that would be picked up over several years in the workforce.

Also, companies like mine could really use a technical editor. We have some, but they are usually people that have a science background. We usually don't have budget to send our reports to them, which is why they're not utilized often. That said, we all know this, but some people's writing is just atrocious. I'm not talking about bad grammar or spelling, but phrases disguised as sentences and a lack of transitions. It's amazing that they were able to get a resume together for the company to review.

*This one person has extremely high standards, which is why they still work as a barista (yeah, they're the full stereotype). They want to live and work in Manhattan as an editor for major publisher (which is really just until they get their writing career in full swing). With no prior experience, and no internships. *facepalm*
 
Also, companies like mine could really use a technical editor. We have some, but they are usually people that have a science background. We usually don't have budget to send our reports to them, which is why they're not utilized often. That said, we all know this, but some people's writing is just atrocious. I'm not talking about bad grammar or spelling, but phrases disguised as sentences and a lack of transitions. It's amazing that they were able to get a resume together for the company to review.

This was my first job out of college. I was a non-technical writing expert for a company that had testing and evaluation contracts with the US Navy. Why non-technical, you might ask? Well, they wanted to make sure the reports had minimal jargon and were able to be read and understood by the people who provide the funding to the military. Some of those people do have technical knowledge but many don't. My job was to interact with the test technicians to make sure that the high-level review teams could understand their conclusions.

And yeah...I have a BA in English. I also knew that once I realized that I had no future in the editing world (its super jammin' boring) that I needed to specialize for my Master's. Law School might be next. Who knows.
 
Also, companies like mine could really use a technical editor. We have some, but they are usually people that have a science background. We usually don't have budget to send our reports to them, which is why they're not utilized often. That said, we all know this, but some people's writing is just atrocious. I'm not talking about bad grammar or spelling, but phrases disguised as sentences and a lack of transitions. It's amazing that they were able to get a resume together for the company to review.

This was my first job out of college. I was a non-technical writing expert for a company that had testing and evaluation contracts with the US Navy. Why non-technical, you might ask? Well, they wanted to make sure the reports had minimal jargon and were able to be read and understood by the people who provide the funding to the military. Some of those people do have technical knowledge but many don't. My job was to interact with the test technicians to make sure that the high-level review teams could understand their conclusions.

And yeah...I have a BA in English. I also knew that once I realized that I had no future in the editing world (its super jammin' boring) that I needed to specialize for my Master's. Law School might be next. Who knows.
Gary evolved from journalism to environmental and construction consulting ... which in turn required significant writing. Gary, with his communications major, was humored by writing circles around the engineers who were unable to make their point(s).
 

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