The Pact

cgipson1 · Apr 21, 2012

SCraig said:
cgipson1 said:

I am seriously considering leaving.... and don't know if I will come back or not! The forum seems to have fewer and fewer people on it that want to LEARN just for photography! And way too many people that just want to learn the basic beginner stuff to justify the fact that they charge for crap, and call themselves PRO's! (They still post in the Beginner section though.. asking silly question's about "How do I improve my focus"... and my personal favorite (paraphrased): "I am too stupid to use flash.. so I am a Natural Light Photographer!"

I do not shoot for money anymore.. only for fun! So my bitterness toward these MWAC's and GWAC clowns... is not financially motivated! I hate what they are doing to a profession that I once loved dearly! They are lowering standards everywhere! I don't care that they serve the low end market (the only market they could serve!)... and that they are not really competition for a decent photographer!
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Click to expand...

I can understand your frustration, Charlie. I've mentioned this several times, but when I was a kid I worked in a camera store part time. At the time there were two professional photographers in my town, excluding the reporters for the local newspaper, both with established studios. I looked on Google last year and in the same town, whose population has probably increased by 20% since those days, there are now in excess of 200 "Professional" photographers.

I've worked for enginering companies for 45 years and have been around registered professional engineers that entire time. I KNOW what being a professional means, I KNOW that there is more to it than just giving yourself a title. I've never ahd any urge to pursue photography as a career because I know that there is more to it than being able to get a decent exposure most of the time. But, as long as there are no specific requirements for being a true professional photographer that is never going to change. There are no scholastic requirements, there are no experience requirements, there are no legal requirements. All one has to do is purchase a business license and they are an Instant Professional Photograher, ready to take someone's money for producing mediocre results at best.

These people do not understand what is required of a professional phorographer. A true "Pro" has to have the knowledge, experience, ability, and equipment to get the shots that the client wants, under any conditions, under any circumstances, at any time. They feel that if they don't get the results on the first try that an "I'm Sorry" is a sufficient excuse. They feel that it's acceptable to be a "Fair Weather" photographer or a "Natural Light" photographer or a "Limited" photographer. They think it's OK to take money for performing a service and not have a business license, insurance, or pay taxes on the income. This is not the case however it is the way that this profession is headed.

It's a sore spot for me to because, much like you, I've seen it happening for a long time. Unlike you, and a few others here, I watched it from the outside but I watched nonetheless, I've done it for a very long time, and I don't like what I see. It is frustrating to see a profession ruined in such a manner but that is what is happening.

Sorry, perhaps this doesn't belong in this thread but after seeing some of today's posts I felt it was pertinent. If one of the mods wants to remove it then go ahead and do so.

:thumbup:

cgipson1 · Apr 21, 2012

manaheim said:
Can we seriously not turn this into a pro vs non pro discussion? Seriously.

Sorry... I just thought that it was a pertinent issue for your PACT! I apologize if you consider it a hijack!

cgipson1 · Apr 21, 2012

Bitter Jeweler said:

hahaha... I can only HOPE that since DScience is in Denver, that I meet him someday!

Josh66 · Apr 21, 2012

You'll come back for the action. And the laughs.

No other photography forum has either quite like this one. :lol:

Bitter Jeweler · Apr 21, 2012

They all come back, don't they Josh? :sexywink:

manaheim · Apr 21, 2012

cgipson1 said:
Sorry... I just thought that it was a pertinent issue for your PACT! I apologize if you consider it a hijack!

Thread hijack or no, it's a topic that's been covered ad nauseum and leads to the kind of negativity and hostility that (I think) is very much counter to the spirit of the idea.

IByte · Apr 21, 2012

I see no problem trying to have standards even in cyberspace, thankfully some people care..sign me up!

AgentDrex · Dec 23, 2012

Is a positive response to this thread considered good enough for signing "The Pact" so I can use this is my sig? I feel I've been on long enough now to be considered for this and also will make more effort in the future to prove more meaningful critiques.

Derrel · Dec 23, 2012

manaheim said:
Giving Critique

Critique is given to help people become better photographers, artists, and occasionally business people.

I will offer honest critique when it is asked for.

I will critique the work, not the person.

I will not hesitate to be direct.

I will not hold back critique, even if feelings may be hurt.

If a shot has fundamental flaws, I will not hesitate to say so.

I will offer both technical and artistic critique when possible.

I will respect the requestors wishes if specified (such as if they only want technical critique)

Summary comments along the lines of "I like it!" or "Great job!" or "It sucks!" do no one any good and will be avoided at all costs. Opinions must be expressed with reasons and analysis.

Lastly, I will make a reasonable effort not to hurt feelings, but not at the cost of sacrificing the aforementioned statements.

Accepting Critique

Critique is given to help people become better photographers, artists, and occasionally business people.

I will accept critique graciously.

I may not agree with or use all that I receive, but I will still but I will still take into consideration all critique provided.

I will actively and openly discuss critique so received.

When appropriate, I will challenge those who critique me to gain a better understanding.

I will not attempt to discredit or insult those who would take the time to provide any form of critique.

I will not discount opinions without serious consideration.

Know Theyself

I hereby acknowledge that I am not Ansel Adams.

I will be mindful of my own skill level when speaking with others and actively point out where I am speaking of things I am not totally certain of.

I acknowledge that no matter how good I am, there is always going to be someone better out there, and there is always going to be something else to learn.

A Committment to Community

I am a part of this community and therefore a stakeholder in it and will act as such.

Anyone who acts shoddily on this forum is a detriment to this community. I will take it upon myself to make polite comments to those people and (in extreme cases) report them to the moderators if appropriate.

I will actively participate in trying to redirect discussions to improve the quality of discourse.

I will actively suggest and promote changes to the community to make it better.

Response to Smarm (Antagonism/Ingratiation/etc.) (I like the word "smarm")

If someone rails at a response where I am adhering to this pact, I will point them to this pact and suggest that they read it.

If someone rails at me and I deserve it, I'll apologize and correct my behavior.

I will do my best not to get involved in flame wars.

I will give everyone at least one chance to take back what they said or correct their approach.

If all else fails, I will actively employ the ignore feature and move on with my life.

Did I miss anything?

So, you want to put a link to a four year old post in your sig file??? Yeah, go ahead. Why not!!

AgentDrex · Dec 23, 2012

Yes, I do. It seems like something I could adhere to. It makes sense for a guy who has been here for almost five years to start to finally provide some meaningful critique. This seems like a legitimate way to show that I adhere to these principles, cultish as it may seem to others. It also serves as a reminder to myself to continue to provide critiques that are both polite but firm. This was/is an idea I can stand behind.

EDIT: This thread is that old? Ha! I made a thread that went sixteen pages in one day. Not too shabby. Probably wasn't the best way to get that but not the worst either.