The people on this forum make me sick

[bribrius]

JTP I believe in the context Ray is speaking is that he sees a photo done by another person and emulates that photo himself. He's not copying the photo with a right-click and uploading it he's seeing something; going out and doing it himself.

Yep, that's exactly what he is talking about. It is called visual plagiarism.

Philosophy of Photography Visual Plagiarism JMG-Galleries - Landscape Nature Travel Photography

I understand that there is a lot of gray area there, such as whether the person is profiting from the plagiarized image, and that sometimes it can happen randomly or with a very popular subject (ie: Half Dome). Not that there is any way to stop it. It is one of the problems with social media and one of the reason I have altered the way I put my work out there. I have had cases where I take a photo, post it, then within a few days see several other local "photographers" in the same spot trying to get the same image. It is also one of the reasons I do my best to not keep up with what other photographers are doing in the area where I am shooting.

oddly enough i can relate to this. Had one message me and actually thank me for posting a certain image and told me they were going to go there and how much i "helped" them out by them seeing my image. Why i am very careful about what i post online. Illegal, no. Annoying as hell when someone takes your idea. Yes. I deleted the image right after that. I don't post chit for images anymore had enough.. If i do it is the crappy ones or i delete them soon after posting. People need to come up with their own material. I can see copying a "style" from a previous time. You start copying the actual photos something is up. Get your own material.

 

[pixmedic]

i wish as many people were against the moral, ethical, and criminal offense of trespassing as are against the moral, ethical, and criminal offense of plagiarism, copyright infringement, and theft.
I guess its ok to only take the moral high ground on issues you actually care about.

seriously though, in some instances, it is impossible to take a picture without copying someone...
try to take a picture of a famous monument, or famous natural landmark, and not find a picture taken earlier
that is pretty much identical to yours.
take a picture of someone in front of a tree, or on a fence, or *shudder* on train tracks. (no, really...no train tracks please) Maybe its a fine line between "having the same idea as a billion other people", "using a photo as inspiration", and "directly copying an exact scenario"

btw...if anyone rummages through my flickr page and happens to find a picture they like so much that they want to emulate it (unlikely as it is) you can PM me and not only will I give you my blessing, I will tell you my setup for the shot.
(just as long as you agree to tell me what you did if yours comes out better)

 

[JTPhotography]

JTP I believe in the context Ray is speaking is that he sees a photo done by another person and emulates that photo himself. He's not copying the photo with a right-click and uploading it he's seeing something; going out and doing it himself.

Yep, that's exactly what he is talking about. It is called visual plagiarism.

Philosophy of Photography Visual Plagiarism JMG-Galleries - Landscape Nature Travel Photography

I understand that there is a lot of gray area there, such as whether the person is profiting from the plagiarized image, and that sometimes it can happen randomly or with a very popular subject (ie: Half Dome). Not that there is any way to stop it. It is one of the problems with social media and one of the reason I have altered the way I put my work out there. I have had cases where I take a photo, post it, then within a few days see several other local "photographers" in the same spot trying to get the same image. It is also one of the reasons I do my best to not keep up with what other photographers are doing in the area where I am shooting.

oddly enough i can relate to this. Had one message me and actually thank me for posting a certain image and told me they were going to go there and how much i "helped" them out by them seeing my image. Why i am very careful about what i post online. Illegal, no. Annoying as hell when someone takes your idea. Yes. I deleted the image right after that. I don't post chit for images anymore had enough.. If i do it is the crappy ones or i delete them soon after posting. People need to come up with their own material. I can see copying a "style" from a previous time. You start copying the actual photos something is up. Get your own material.

Damn, that sucks. As you said, there is nothing you can really except give them hell about it.

 

[bribrius]

JTP I believe in the context Ray is speaking is that he sees a photo done by another person and emulates that photo himself. He's not copying the photo with a right-click and uploading it he's seeing something; going out and doing it himself.

Yep, that's exactly what he is talking about. It is called visual plagiarism.

Philosophy of Photography Visual Plagiarism JMG-Galleries - Landscape Nature Travel Photography

I understand that there is a lot of gray area there, such as whether the person is profiting from the plagiarized image, and that sometimes it can happen randomly or with a very popular subject (ie: Half Dome). Not that there is any way to stop it. It is one of the problems with social media and one of the reason I have altered the way I put my work out there. I have had cases where I take a photo, post it, then within a few days see several other local "photographers" in the same spot trying to get the same image. It is also one of the reasons I do my best to not keep up with what other photographers are doing in the area where I am shooting.

oddly enough i can relate to this. Had one message me and actually thank me for posting a certain image and told me they were going to go there and how much i "helped" them out by them seeing my image. Why i am very careful about what i post online. Illegal, no. Annoying as hell when someone takes your idea. Yes. I deleted the image right after that. I don't post chit for images anymore had enough.. If i do it is the crappy ones or i delete them soon after posting. People need to come up with their own material. I can see copying a "style" from a previous time. You start copying the actual photos something is up. Get your own material.

Damn, that sucks. As you said, there is nothing you can really except give them hell about it.

I get worse about this type of thing the more time i put in. Last one that contacted me (via facebook go figure) asked me why i was so concerned over it. I just responded something like "look man. I spend a lot of time doing this. i shoot in snow, sleet, rain, zero degrees and walk or drive all day sometimes. And was standing on a bridge freezing my azz off in drizzle last weekend getting one. Whatever the photo is, i earned it. It is mine. Go earn your own. "
They don't though. Fair weather shooters. They see it, they go there. Put in 1/10th the work and copy what you did. Free loaders basically.

 

[Buckster]

"Good artists copy; Great artists steal."

I just "stole" that quote.

I've also "stolen" the idea to make/imitate photos of: water, fruit and vegetable drop/splashes, untold numbers of various objects, many common landscapes, portraits of people, zoo animals, and probably a lot of other stuff I'm not recalling at the moment.

Back when I played guitar and sang, I "stole" and imitated many, many well-known songs written and performed by others that I'd heard on the radio and often bought the recordings of. Coincidentally, I've noticed over the years that this happens a lot. People call them "covers", and some are considered quite good, even classic, in their own right.

Here's another quote I'm happy to "steal":

"Imitation is the greatest form of flattery."

Artists who don't put their work out there for others to see and hear claiming it's because they're afraid it will be copied aren't artists; They're wannabes using a lame excuse to keep from being ridiculed for making crap that they don't want others to see or hear.

One last "stolen" quote:

"Life sucks. Get a helmet."

 

[Braineack]

Everyday I get better, so one day I too will make you sick [if not already for other reasons]


Good Artists Steal Great Artists Share ADC Global Awards Club

 

[photoguy99]

Copying art is perhaps the single most important tradition in teaching it.

There's a difference between copying for the purpose of learning, and appropriation. The latter is iffy both morally and legally. The further is, at least morally, just fine. Separating it legally from appropriation might be a little dicey, as legal things are.

Covering songs is a bit different. There are mandatory licenses and systems for paying, which do not exist for visual art.

 

[astroNikon]

I think it's been said many times,
But usually peoples Egos get in the way of their own learning.
They get a dSLR for Christmas, put it in auto and take "amazing" pictures. At least compared to what they did before. And their friends & family say so too.

Then their friends and family say that person should go in business because their facebook and instagram photos are amazing; totally out of this world. And they take fantastic pictures of their kids and family.

Friends and family always give positive feedback (assuming one isn't a real photographer).

Then people come to this website, post a link to their website and post a bizillion photos in a thread wanting instant positive reinforcement feedback of their fabulous work and how they are going to take the family & wedding photography world by storm and create a billion dollar photography empire based on their photography skills and transform the industry overnight.

Ain't gonna happen.

Most of peoples photos, though may be creative, seem to lack some basic fundamentals.

It takes time to identify how to transform one's work from just "pictures" to "neat pictures", and then to nice and professional work. It takes time to learn about lighting, post processing and a gazillion other technical details.

BUT, it requires a person to want to improve.
To not just give up but to try to make those steps. You cannot get from A to Z in one step. You have to make those small incremental steps of B, C, D etc.
It's up to one to learn how to make those incremental steps and to put the time into it.

So one can just criticize everyone of being better than them
or strive to ask questions of how to improve.
and make those steps to improve.

I'm still learning how to take stunning and detailed pictures of flying birds.
It's not as easy as one thinks.

 

[bribrius]

"Good artists copy; Great artists steal."

I just "stole" that quote.

I've also "stolen" the idea to make/imitate photos of: water, fruit and vegetable drop/splashes, untold numbers of various objects, many common landscapes, portraits of people, zoo animals, and probably a lot of other stuff I'm not recalling at the moment.

Back when I played guitar and sang, I "stole" and imitated many, many well-known songs written and performed by others that I'd heard on the radio and often bought the recordings of. Coincidentally, I've noticed over the years that this happens a lot. People call them "covers", and some are considered quite good, even classic, in their own right.

Here's another quote I'm happy to "steal":

"Imitation is the greatest form of flattery."

Artists who don't put their work out there for others to see and hear claiming it's because they're afraid it will be copied aren't artists; They're wannabes using a lame excuse to keep from being ridiculed for making crap that they don't want others to see or hear.

One last "stolen" quote:

"Life sucks. Get a helmet."

I don't mine sharing and learning. But when someone purposely goes to a not normally shot location and purposely tries to copy your photo that is something else.

 

[Fred Berg]

Don't be put off by what you see posted here. By doing the same thing often enough, know-how can be gained in almost any endeavor. People who get good at something rarely leave their comfort zone, TPF members hardly ever. Keep at it and you'll soon be up to scratch. Repetition is the mother of learning and practice makes perfect.

 

[Buckster]

Covering songs is a bit different. There are mandatory licenses and systems for paying, which do not exist for visual art.

Tell it to Uncle Fred (read "millions of non-professional musicians") when he's playing golden oldies at the family reunion picnic (read: "in venues that are not paying copyright fees").

There's also the question of how 17 million musicians can all get away with using the same 3 chord progressions, or how they can all imitate one another when making music in genres from country to pop to rap to disco to polka that all sounds so similar within that genre, that most of it might as well all be the same song.

The point of my comparison was not to open up a whole new subject for you to nitpick, as much as I know you enjoy that. The point was to point out that artistic endeavors intrinsically evolve through imitation and repetition of the works that come before and surround them.

It's not an evil plot to rip each other off; It's the nature of art.

 

[Buckster]

"Good artists copy; Great artists steal."

I just "stole" that quote.

I've also "stolen" the idea to make/imitate photos of: water, fruit and vegetable drop/splashes, untold numbers of various objects, many common landscapes, portraits of people, zoo animals, and probably a lot of other stuff I'm not recalling at the moment.

Back when I played guitar and sang, I "stole" and imitated many, many well-known songs written and performed by others that I'd heard on the radio and often bought the recordings of. Coincidentally, I've noticed over the years that this happens a lot. People call them "covers", and some are considered quite good, even classic, in their own right.

Here's another quote I'm happy to "steal":

"Imitation is the greatest form of flattery."

Artists who don't put their work out there for others to see and hear claiming it's because they're afraid it will be copied aren't artists; They're wannabes using a lame excuse to keep from being ridiculed for making crap that they don't want others to see or hear.

One last "stolen" quote:

"Life sucks. Get a helmet."

I don't mine sharing and learning. But when someone purposely goes to a not normally shot location and purposely tries to copy your photo that is something else.

No, it's really not something else. It's not any different than them going to a well known location and purposely trying to imitate a well-known photo (which is often why that location is well-known in the first place).

By your way of thinking, no photos should ever be shown, especially not great ones, because someone might try to make one like them, and that's just a load of BS, pure and simple.

 

[Forkie]

Phew, guys! It's a good job none of use Rembrandt's lighting techniques, or we'd all be guilty of plagiarism!

 

[bribrius]

"Good artists copy; Great artists steal."

I just "stole" that quote.

I've also "stolen" the idea to make/imitate photos of: water, fruit and vegetable drop/splashes, untold numbers of various objects, many common landscapes, portraits of people, zoo animals, and probably a lot of other stuff I'm not recalling at the moment.

Back when I played guitar and sang, I "stole" and imitated many, many well-known songs written and performed by others that I'd heard on the radio and often bought the recordings of. Coincidentally, I've noticed over the years that this happens a lot. People call them "covers", and some are considered quite good, even classic, in their own right.

Here's another quote I'm happy to "steal":

"Imitation is the greatest form of flattery."

Artists who don't put their work out there for others to see and hear claiming it's because they're afraid it will be copied aren't artists; They're wannabes using a lame excuse to keep from being ridiculed for making crap that they don't want others to see or hear.

One last "stolen" quote:

"Life sucks. Get a helmet."

I don't mine sharing and learning. But when someone purposely goes to a not normally shot location and purposely tries to copy your photo that is something else.

No, it's really not something else. It's not any different than them going to a well known location and purposely trying to imitate a well-known photo (which is often why that location is well-known in the first place).

By your way of thinking, no photos should ever be shown, especially not great ones, because someone might try to make one like them, and that's just a load of BS, pure and simple.

you don't care because it doesn't effect you probably with the type of photography you do. Put it in the perspective of your client taking your photos and not paying you and you might get it.. In this case, someone is basically taking your shot because they are taking your idea and copying it. We may just have to agree to disagree here. Come take a walk with me around the city or where i shoot sometime and you might "get it" on why someone would be upset going through a ton of b.s. to get a photo only to have it copied. If i shot little kids and photoshopped them i wouldn't care either. Don't even apply. There isn't much original about that to start with. Not like you are out hunting photos.

 

[pixmedic]

"Good artists copy; Great artists steal."

I just "stole" that quote.

I've also "stolen" the idea to make/imitate photos of: water, fruit and vegetable drop/splashes, untold numbers of various objects, many common landscapes, portraits of people, zoo animals, and probably a lot of other stuff I'm not recalling at the moment.

Back when I played guitar and sang, I "stole" and imitated many, many well-known songs written and performed by others that I'd heard on the radio and often bought the recordings of. Coincidentally, I've noticed over the years that this happens a lot. People call them "covers", and some are considered quite good, even classic, in their own right.

Here's another quote I'm happy to "steal":

"Imitation is the greatest form of flattery."

Artists who don't put their work out there for others to see and hear claiming it's because they're afraid it will be copied aren't artists; They're wannabes using a lame excuse to keep from being ridiculed for making crap that they don't want others to see or hear.

One last "stolen" quote:

"Life sucks. Get a helmet."

I don't mine sharing and learning. But when someone purposely goes to a not normally shot location and purposely tries to copy your photo that is something else.

No, it's really not something else. It's not any different than them going to a well known location and purposely trying to imitate a well-known photo (which is often why that location is well-known in the first place).

By your way of thinking, no photos should ever be shown, especially not great ones, because someone might try to make one like them, and that's just a load of BS, pure and simple.

you don't care because it doesn't effect you probably with the type of photography you do. Put it in the perspective of your client taking your photos and not paying you and you might get it.. In this case, someone is basically taking your shot because they are taking your idea and copying it. We may just have to agree to disagree here. Come take a walk with me around the city or where i shoot sometime and you might "get it" on why someone would be upset going through a ton of b.s. to get a photo only to have it copied. If i shot little kids and photoshopped them i wouldn't care either. Don't even apply. There isn't much original about that to start with. Not like you are out hunting photos.

i would like to see just what you have shot that is so terribly original and displays such photographic Majesty that you are deathly afraid of it being stolen or copied.
wherever it is you are shooting at, i am pretty sure it has been done before. and whoever sees your photo has to go to the same place, and deal with the same "B.S" as you to take the same shot.
is the fear that someone will take the same shot as you? or that they will do a better job at it?