The weak link.

[Grandpa Ron]

Decades ago when I had a good picture I could run off a few B&W prints for the family. Later when a particularly good color photo came back in an hour, I could have a few more copies made.

Now in the digital age I can shoot, cull, rotate, crop and digitally enhance my perfect print with remarkable ease, but that is where it stops.

It is true I can email or Facebook my prized photo to the world, though its quality is a product of the device it is viewed on. However, I what to hang this beauty on the wall or enter it in a contest.
So with courage born of ignorance, I push the Print button.

Well it seem like the weak link in this chain is the printer. It says "HP Photosmart" but it is not. So, the question is; can a home printer be adjusted to give vibrant color prints and high contrast black and white prints. The pros can afford the high dollar printers. I just want to hang the occasional "good shot" I make from time to time.

All suggestions appreciated.

 

[tirediron]

Most can, but I'm not convinced it's worth the effort. Given the price that budget labs such as Wal-mart, Costco, etc charge for printing I would recommend going with that over doing it yourself unless you really want to learn the black art of digital printing.

 

[greybeard]

I just do Adoramapix. My house is covered with prints from them and I doubt I have anywhere near the price of a big deal printer tied up in these prints including mounting.

 

[TCampbell]

If you only rarely print... use a service.



All-in-one printers that do photos aren't great on photo quality. Also, they typically use dye-based inks which fade over time.

If you'd like to check your printer, visit this web page and download the test print.

Get the image here: Printing Insights #48

But READ this page ...
Printing Insights #49

...because he explains why each section of the test print was included and what you are supposed to be inspecting in that section.


If you really want to print your own pro quality prints, you're going to need a better printer.

Dedicated photo printers typically do a better job than these all-in-ones.

Currently the industry leaders in printers are Canon & Epson. Everybody else is too far behind to be worth considering. (more on this later).

You can get either "dye" based or "pigment" based inkjets. Pigments tend to resist fading much better (the image should still look great in 25 years). I've seen dye based images that showed noticeable fading after just 3 years. If you want archival quality then you should probably choose a pigment printer.

Canon's PIXMA Pro-100 is a dye-based inkjet, but Canon claims they do things to their ink and their over-coating to help it resist fading better than typical dye-based inkjets. There is almost always a rebate program going. This printer lists for $499, but you almost never pay that. I see B&H Photo has it listed for $369... except Canon is offering a $250 rebate... so if you do the rebate it's $119.

That's a pretty good printer for $119 ... it's also one of the most popular photo printers. On the Canon forums it certainly seems to be the most popular Canon printer model (likely because of the cost).

I use a PIXMA-PRO-10. It looks identical to the PRO-100... but it is a pigment-based inkjet. It uses 10 ink tanks instead of 8. It has a better color gamut. Basically it's just a little nicer than a PRO-100. It lists at $699. B&H Photo sells it for $699, but with the $250 rebate it's $449.

I didn't pay anywhere near that for mine... I was just sending everything out. But one day at the local camera shop, we got into a conversation on printers, they mentioned that they were running a good sale on the PRO-10 and when you combined it with the rebate, it was far too good to pass up. (I think after everything was done... I spent $150).

I've been very happy with the print quality. Paper size is limited to 13x19" ... but if I wanted something bigger, the problem is you have to start getting into large format printers and the prices quickly sky-rocket (so unless you have deep pockets and print enough to justify it... best to just send out anything you want in larger format sizes.)



By default, the printer is going to give you ok color ... for those who aren't too fussy. To get more accurate color you need to download an ICC profile. This is basically just a file that you drag & drop to the right folder on a PC or Mac. But the file gives the printer instructions on how to blend & apply color for YOUR specific printer model and for YOUR specific paper type (and they always assume original manufacturer ink -- not third party ink.)

E.g. If I want to print on Moab Slickrock Metallic Pearl ... there's an ICC file I can download from Moab Paper for that. But if I print on any other paper... say Ilford Gallerie Prestige Smooth High Gloss... there's a different ICC profile I can download but I'd go to Ilford Paper to get it.

The profiles are pre-made, you just download them and drop them in the right folder.

You can build your own ICC profiles, but you have to own a printer calibration tool (X-Rite and DataColor make these devices).

 

[SwampDude]

Since I abandoned film a long time ago, all of the photos I've taken of people I love since about 2005 are stored in digital format on a memory card or in a cloud somewhere instead of in physical form. While the abstractness of a digital file doesn't concern most amateur photographers, it does me. I'm in my late 70s and I'd like my images of family and dear friends and special occasions to be memorialized in actual prints. I don't know how many there are; if I'm really selective, there may be 500 images that are worthy of producing in good quality 5x7 prints.

Over the Christmas/New Year holidays, our family really enjoyed going through my pre-digital photos. My grandkids loved seeing photos of their parents over the years. Pictures documenting the lives of loved ones are priceless, forever.

I've been thinking about buying a photo printer to create my 'legacy' pictures because I have no experience with Costco, Walgreens and other commercial labs. I'm looking for simple operation and maintenance, print size of 8x10 or less, and very good print quality from a printer costing up to $500. Any suggestions? In the alternative, if there is a print lab that is easy to work with to get consistently high quality prints at reasonable cost, I'm open to recommendations.

 

[Strodav]

Decades ago when I had a good picture I could run off a few B&W prints for the family. Later when a particularly good color photo came back in an hour, I could have a few more copies made.

Now in the digital age I can shoot, cull, rotate, crop and digitally enhance my perfect print with remarkable ease, but that is where it stops.

It is true I can email or Facebook my prized photo to the world, though its quality is a product of the device it is viewed on. However, I what to hang this beauty on the wall or enter it in a contest.
So with courage born of ignorance, I push the Print button.

Well it seem like the weak link in this chain is the printer. It says "HP Photosmart" but it is not. So, the question is; can a home printer be adjusted to give vibrant color prints and high contrast black and white prints. The pros can afford the high dollar printers. I just want to hang the occasional "good shot" I make from time to time.

All suggestions appreciated.

I'm a retired printer, which has led me to be a very color conscious photographer. I have an Epson XP-15000 6 color dye based ink printer, which run about $250. Largest print size is 13" x 19". It's a good enthusiast printer at a reasonable price and does a nice job with B&W and color prints. If you are looking to sell your prints, I would suggest you look at the Epson 9 color encapsulated pigment based ink jet printers like the P400 or P600. Canon also makes some very good photo printers. Stay away from hp. You can head over to Michaels and pick up some nice frames at reasonable prices to do it yourself, or you can have Michaels frame your prints for you. I also have an X-Rite i1 Studio color calibration system, which allows for the color calibration of computer monitors (needs to be a monitor calibrateable to the srgb color space), cameras, scanners, projectors and printers. The i1 Studio runs about $480. There is a bit of a learning curve, but after you go through it, you can take a picture with your camera, display it on a calibrated monitor, then print it on a calibrated printer (need to turn off the printer's color correction) and the print will be a good match to the monitor. It is important to note that you need to control your viewing environment. Your monitor is luminescent and the print is reflective so they will always look a bit different. You will need a D5000 light to look at the print, which should be far enough away or shielded from your monitor and you should be able to darken the lights in the room. If done right, you will get more than an acceptable match.

 

[dennybeall]

Inexpensive printers can do a remarkably good job. My Epson All-In-One, if it's set on highest quality image and you put photo paper in the trey, will print a very nice 11X14 picture. It's slow as the devil but it's very nice. Don't ever get it wet though.................................

 

[dennyr]

I know Nothing About digital photography, so forgive my ignorance, but......you guys do not really mention any price of substance. Surely you are not saying 500 bux is a big expense.
Is 1k "A Lot" of money for a decent printer, in your guys opinion.?
Thank You

 

[Tim Tucker 2]

Well it seem like the weak link in this chain is the printer. It says "HP Photosmart" but it is not. So, the question is; can a home printer be adjusted to give vibrant color prints and high contrast black and white prints. The pros can afford the high dollar printers. I just want to hang the occasional "good shot" I make from time to time.

The weak link in the chain is not the printer but the human eye. The main problems are in not understanding what you are seeing on a screen or not having a consistent handle on colour management in computers. Printers do not print what is displayed on a screen, they print the colours as described by the number in the image file, this is the *absolute* colour of an image and not what you see on your screen. Calibration is an attempt to make the output device match the reference colour as described by the number. The theory is that if your screen matches it AND your printer does the same then the two output devices will be similar. It does NOT match the print to what you see on your screen.

Eyes are adaptive, they see differences more than the absolute, the numbers are not. If you view an image on a bright screen in a dark room the brightest tone will appear white because that is how your eye interprets it. But if it has a numerical value of 175;173;162 it will print as a slightly blue grey. Because many don't see or understand that they think that it's the printer that's wrong.

At the bottom is a well known optical illusion, it is unique in that this one works in print as well as on screen. You may think that the inner square on the left relates to the background on the right, but it's actually the two central squares that are the same tone. I'm just trying to demonstrate it's wrong to make the assumption that what you see is absolute and actually there, that the tones and colours you see on your screen are not always the absolute and accurate colours as described by the numbers. This is especially true with computer screens, when you glance at the image you would be surprised at just how inaccurately you *see* what you assume is absolute.

Additive colour systems such as a computer screen are the most visually ambiguous devices on which to view images, when light is shone directly in your eyes it is very difficult to see the lightest tone on a screen as a mid grey. So when your print turns out too dark or has an obvious colour cast by far the most common cause of this is that you *see* the faults in the image that your eye corrected when viewing on a screen far more clearly.

Modern ink jet printers are remarkably accurate and consistent devices. Actually printing *high contrast* and *over saturated* colour is also much easier on a cheap printer than accurate colour and smooth gradations, if you understand colour. Ink jets though are designed to be used, they don't fare well if you leave then idle for long periods. Getting a handle on colour and colour management is a hands-on process. You will understand absolute colour management of computers and how that differs to the perceptive colour theory that governs how you see colour a lot better if you print your own images, it will start to make a lot more sense and your images will be far more consistent.

My main output is print because I far prefer it, I find computer screens are quite limited and that people rarely see images correctly when displayed on them. So a printer was always a no-brainer. I have an Epson P800 which is excellent and I think worth the cost.

 

[Grandpa Ron]

Well I stuck to the middle ground. I selected 5x7 as my print size. Sent out photos to three print shops that advertised true Black and white, and tackled my printer project.

Two of the three shops were disappointing having a blue or brownish cast to the print. The third was local and I talked with the technician and they made b & w prints I was satisfied with.

One thing that was pointed out to me, was it is difficult to make a print has the dynamic range of a back lit computer screen. Paper can only get so white and so bright.

It took a bit of experimenting, ink and paper but buy adjusting my black and white photos histograms so they contained the full range from black to white and adjusting the printer setting, including removing the color cartridge I was able to match the prints I liked.

Now I need to figure the cost of the doing it myself vs. having the local lab print it.

 

[Strodav]

I know Nothing About digital photography, so forgive my ignorance, but......you guys do not really mention any price of substance. Surely you are not saying 500 bux is a big expense.
Is 1k "A Lot" of money for a decent printer, in your guys opinion.?
Thank You

It really depends on what you are looking at for size and quality of the prints you want to make. Go on amazon.com and look at the Epson XP-15000, P400 and P600. The prints from the P400 and P600 are professional quality and the prints off the XP-15000 are very, very good. That should give you an idea of what the price range is for enthusiast to professional printers for home or small shop use. If you want something wider than 13" take a look at the Canon Prograf series which go from $1300 to $12000, which go from 17" x 22" to 60" wide roll fed. These are the types of printers you would use if you were going into the print business. Personally, if I need to go larger than 13" x 19" I'll use MPIX or WHCC or Pro DPI or Bay Photo or H&H labs as I can not justify the cost of a professional level photo printer for my printing needs.

 

[SwampDude]

[/QUOTE]
It really depends on what you are looking at for size and quality of the prints you want to make. Go on amazon.com and look at the Epson XP-15000, P400 and P600. The prints from the P400 and P600 are professional quality and the prints off the XP-15000 are very, very good. That should give you an idea of what the price range is for enthusiast to professional printers for home or small shop use. If you want something wider than 13" take a look at the Canon Prograf series which go from $1300 to $12000, which go from 17" x 22" to 60" wide roll fed. These are the types of printers you would use if you were going into the print business. Personally, if I need to go larger than 13" x 19" I'll use MPIX or WHCC or Pro DPI or Bay Photo or H&H labs as I can not justify the cost of a professional level photo printer for my printing needs.[/QUOTE]

On your recommendation, I looked into the Epson P400 for printing lots of personal photos. This printer looks very promising for a very reasonable price.

I'm technically challenged, so I'm wondering if the P400 set up is fairly simple for 5x7 prints sent wirelessly from my iPad photo file.

Many of my photos have been 'custom' cropped without consideration of aspect ratio. Can this 'out of spec' condition be bypassed somehow or will each photo have to be reset to a standard aspect ratio before printing? Or, will the printer crop the image to fit the 5x7 format, thus losing part of the photo content?

 

[Jeff G]

Epson is my printer of choice also, having worked in a printing environment for a long time, and using many different brands, it is difficult to beat Epson's quality.

 

[Strodav]

It really depends on what you are looking at for size and quality of the prints you want to make. Go on amazon.com and look at the Epson XP-15000, P400 and P600. The prints from the P400 and P600 are professional quality and the prints off the XP-15000 are very, very good. That should give you an idea of what the price range is for enthusiast to professional printers for home or small shop use. If you want something wider than 13" take a look at the Canon Prograf series which go from $1300 to $12000, which go from 17" x 22" to 60" wide roll fed. These are the types of printers you would use if you were going into the print business. Personally, if I need to go larger than 13" x 19" I'll use MPIX or WHCC or Pro DPI or Bay Photo or H&H labs as I can not justify the cost of a professional level photo printer for my printing needs.[/QUOTE]

On your recommendation, I looked into the Epson P400 for printing lots of personal photos. This printer looks very promising for a very reasonable price.

I'm technically challenged, so I'm wondering if the P400 set up is fairly simple for 5x7 prints sent wirelessly from my iPad photo file.

Many of my photos have been 'custom' cropped without consideration of aspect ratio. Can this 'out of spec' condition be bypassed somehow or will each photo have to be reset to a standard aspect ratio before printing? Or, will the printer crop the image to fit the 5x7 format, thus losing part of the photo content?[/QUOTE]

Epson printers are not too bad at all to set up, but you do need a basic understanding of how wireless internet works and know your wireless router's SSID and Password (which are usually on a label on the router). You will also need to make sure that your iPad (and iPhone) are on the same wireless network as the printer. The rest of setup is pretty trivial.