Things need to change.

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No longer a newbie, moving up!
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I'm a big believer in democracy, but I also understand the need for the owners to protect there investment, as in the end this forum is run like a business.

Its going really easy for me to write this and disappear off because I won't be here for a while Bye!

I think this is a great forum, you can get some fantastic advice, and those that give it can get a lot out of it to here and here, but the owners aren't letting us help them. If they change a few simple features then we can provide better advice to a larger amount of people and so long term we would see more members.

I know there are several changes we'd all like to see, like making the Beginners section easier to read by increasing the sub-categories. I'd love to see a Video DSLR area with Technique, Gear and Critique sub-sections.

The list no doubt will get longer below and there are for and against points about everything I've suggested, so feel free to debate them.

If this forum wants to grow and survive long term, I think things do need to change, so owners help us help you, since we effectively give free advice and you just provide a forum to do it in. It is not a unique product and there are plenty of other options on the market that cater more to its users needs and wants.
 
Pssst. Hey! New owners! People have been pushing for stuff like this for a while, but it always gets ignored. A pretty makeover isn't quite enough.
 
If this forum wants to grow and survive long term...
It seems it will do that with or without changes.
It's high Google ranking, posts coming up in photography related searches, and age of the forum support my claim.
 
Threads 225,884, Posts 2,009,251, Members 89,718

vs

Threads: 970,187, Posts: 11,819,620, Members: 289,220

which is from another well laid out photography forum I use. And that one is specifically for one brand of DSLR.
 
A pretty makeover isn't quite enough.
It was a lot more than a makeover...it was a full version upgrade...like going from a 50D to a 5DII. ;)

I believe it was well before the ownership change took place, that a decision was made to keep thing small & simple. So rather than having 17 sections with 36 sub-sections...it was kept to a minimum number of sections & sub-sections.

I'm aware of some very nice sites that have many, many forums...but I also know that keeping all the posts in their 'proper' forum section is a lot of work and can lead to over-moderation. And counting on the members to always (or even mostly) put their posts in the right place...just isn't practical. :greenpbl:

I'm certainly not against a re-organization of this forum...but if this is something you really want...then put forward some specific plans that can be debated.
 
A pretty makeover isn't quite enough.
It was a lot more than a makeover...it was a full version upgrade...like going from a 50D to a 5DII. ;)

I believe it was well before the ownership change took place, that a decision was made to keep thing small & simple. So rather than having 17 sections with 36 sub-sections...it was kept to a minimum number of sections & sub-sections.

I'm aware of some very nice sites that have many, many forums...but I also know that keeping all the posts in their 'proper' forum section is a lot of work and can lead to over-moderation. And counting on the members to always (or even mostly) put their posts in the right place...just isn't practical. :greenpbl:

I'm certainly not against a re-organization of this forum...but if this is something you really want...then put forward some specific plans that can be debated.

I'll work on doing just that. And It's not that this place needs more forums, but it needs more clear cut designations between forums so that people don't have to qualify their posts and that the topics should automatically fit in a certain forum.
 
Clap your hands if you believe in magic bullets....or is it fairies?

;)

We don't mean to come off as cynical or uncaring. Just want you all to appreciate how many times over the years things have been changed, re-written, moved around, etc. Despite all this action, people continue to post where and how they will. Overall, things DO seem to fall in the correct forums and Galleries. And the site has not suffered any lack of growth when they don't. It is a business for the owners. They pour a lot of money into this place and, believe it or not, we do read your posts and talk things over.

To back what Mike said, if you have specific ideas go ahead and put them out there. Please appreciate in advance they've probably been put to the test at some point or other, but let's have it! :) Thank you.
 
A pretty makeover isn't quite enough.
It was a lot more than a makeover...it was a full version upgrade...like going from a 50D to a 5DII. ;)

I believe it was well before the ownership change took place, that a decision was made to keep thing small & simple. So rather than having 17 sections with 36 sub-sections...it was kept to a minimum number of sections & sub-sections.

I'm aware of some very nice sites that have many, many forums...but I also know that keeping all the posts in their 'proper' forum section is a lot of work and can lead to over-moderation. And counting on the members to always (or even mostly) put their posts in the right place...just isn't practical. :greenpbl:

I'm certainly not against a re-organization of this forum...but if this is something you really want...then put forward some specific plans that can be debated.

Clap your hands if you believe in magic bullets....or is it fairies?

;)

We don't mean to come off as cynical or uncaring. Just want you all to appreciate how many times over the years things have been changed, re-written, moved around, etc. Despite all this action, people continue to post where and how they will. Overall, things DO seem to fall in the correct forums and Galleries. And the site has not suffered any lack of growth when they don't. It is a business for the owners. They pour a lot of money into this place and, believe it or not, we do read your posts and talk things over.

To back what Mike said, if you have specific ideas go ahead and put them out there. Please appreciate in advance they've probably been put to the test at some point or other, but let's have it! :) Thank you.

These responses seem to be a new attitude towards threads like this. I like it! I stopped visiting as much because I was use to responses with the feeling of, "This is how things are, theyre not gunna change rather your here or not. So deal with it."

Hopefully this trend continues.
 
For a start I'd divide the Beginners forum into 2 sections.

Basic Critique
Basic Questions

It would increase the ability to read and follow it.
 
Everytime this place was splintered into more subforums, it got worse. They tried again later on and guess what? it got even more confusing to post where.

My vote would be for less subforms and more clear cut defined purpose. First mistake made years ago was allowing opinion, comments, discusion, and critique of a photo within any subforum under the "foundations of photography" forum. All of which belongs in the gallery sections. Next mistake was starting a beginners section. "beginner" is a state of mind not a photographic topic of discussion.... and everyones idea of beginner, advanced and expert is different.
 
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I, personally, would drop the word Basic. Already many have said that the terms - basic - advanced - beyond basic etc... don't have any real meaning to people so the result is things get polarized (either you only get one small extreme posting in a section or you get everyone using it - heck I know people shooting for 20+ years who still consider themselves quite basic).

I think a dedicated critique section is in need - as I've said in the linked thread (I think...) we already have the squabbles, rants, and other negative attitude events that occur with a dedicated crits section in the site. So adding one won't add that risk to the sites social structure. What it will do though is gives a focused point for critique (freeing up the main section from crit threads - ie taking pressure off an overused section) which can also be used as a focus (a single mod in charge over that section (or more if needed) to enforce a series of guidelines - the idea of which to get people to post more than "photos - crit them " in their post).

I would then say change the galleries into subcategories where both photos and chat about the subject areas is encouraged (this already happens, but some galleries are only listed as being for photos whilst the name "galleries" suggests photos only. I support keeping them as single subcategories though, I don't think we have enough population to justify a separate photos and talk section for each one).

From there I would then remove the gallery allowance on the beginner section and combine it with beyond the basics into a general photography section. Bumping up the digital and the film general categories into the first main site subsection as well (rather than having them separate and further down the page). This then creates 3 usable generalist sections to break up the population into general - digital and film. We also have our gear and discussions sections which would (in the light of the reshuffle) hopefully see a bit more use.


The main aim is to break the "use beginners" mentality that has slipped into the site - this is needed as already with so much focused on a single section its very easy for threads to end up pages back before they've hardly been up a day or two.


edit - USA - my plan reduces us by one who section :) ;)
 
oh and my opinion about critique is a bit opposite from the rest.

I think all gallery forums should be assumed to be critique with the exception of just one, general or just for fun. I dont want two of every section.. one for posting and one for critique... thats just even more unnecessary splintering.

As it is now, general gallery for critique makes no sense.... is it for people too dense to lazy or properly post in one of the more defined galleries?
 
oh and my opinion about critique is a bit opposite from the rest.

I think all gallery forums should be assumed to be critique with the exception of just one, general or just for fun. I dont want two of every section.. one for posting and one for critique... thats just even more unnecessary splintering.

I've always assumed that crits are the case in any of the galleries outside the "just for fun" gallery (I think its even in the site rules/gallery notation somewhere). I agree that we don't need a separate gallery for each subsection for crits nor for discussion of those subsections (hence why I said just reword their descriptions to account for both uses and rename the galleries into another name to reflect this).
I do however feel that a single crits gallery (for everything) is beneficial because its something users generally look for - it at least gives newer site members a starting point and as I outlined, can be controlled and used to better use through the enforcement of guidelines
 

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