To people who shoot in full manual most of the time...

[Bifurcator]

prodigy2k7,
That's an awfully funny football stadium where the the lights are always changing. Someone needs to take the whiskey bottle away from the guys in the lighting booth!

 

[prodigy2k7]

Exposure only changes if the light changes. Moving the camera slightly usually doesn't change the amount of light, but the meter may change as the tones of the scene move around the various metering segments. As long as the subject is staying in the same light exposure remains the same. That's why I shoot in M. I don't want the camera changing the exposure because the tones of the subject have moved around the composition. I only want to change exposure when the light has changed, or my vision of the finished photograph has changed.

The meter isn't telling you correct exposure. It's telling you how to create a photograph where all the tones in the scene are averaged to middle gray. Depending on the metering mode the camera will give priority to various parts of the scene, and just changing the metering mode can cause the meter to give different settings even though the scene composition and lighting hasn't changed.

If I take a white dog and a black dog and have them sit on a green lawn under sunny skies, and compose the scene so that each dog is to the side, and there's green grass in the center my meter will probably recommend an exposure of approximately f/16 @ 1/100 @ ISO 100, and that will probably be about right. If I move the white dog to the center of the image the meter will recommend less exposure. If I move the black dog to the center of the image the meter will recommend more exposure. But the light never changes, so the exposure doesn't need to either.

This seems illogical to me, although logical at the same time... lol

 

[prodigy2k7]

prodigy2k7,
That's an awfully funny football stadium where the the lights are always changing. Someone needs to take the whiskey bottle away from the guys in the lighting booth!

The lighting itself doesnt change, but how much light reflected does change. Different colors reflect different amounts of light doesnt it? Maybe im wrong...

Such as lots of white jerseys, then lots of black jeysers... One second white jerseys fill the frame (quarterback throwing the ball) then you zoom down field at black jeyseys filling the frame...
You gotta zoom, compose, and use manual to get the right metering... To me that sounds like it takes too long... Id rather let the computer compute it for me...

 

[prodigy2k7]

This is great advice.... but it is completely irrelevant of the shooting mode... assuming a desired aperture of f2.8.... if your histogram shows that your meter is off by a stop you can manually correct the shutter by a stop or use aperture priority exp comp +1 and achieve the same result.

This is the reason why I dont understand if I need to or should learn to use manual fast. I know how to do it slowly, but i dont feel i need to be a pro at it (using it fast i mean)...

I can do the same thing in a priority mode... (av or tv)

 

[dEARlEADER]

• Is Exposure comp kind of like manual when you use a priority mode?
  No. Comp is just raising or lowering the elevation scale a little. See: http://thephotoforum.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1307145&postcount=4

I need some help with this.

From the bulk of your post the way I understand it you pretty much disregard the cameras meter and use your eye to formulate appropriate aperture and shutter values. If this is the case you have reached photographic enlightenment and I have no further argument or comment aside from the obvious statement that most people can`t achieve this.

If I am wrong than you are using your cameras meter as some point of reference to evaluate over or under exposure. If this is the case exp comp is exactly like manual when using a priority mode. If at 2.8 your camera meters suggests 1/250 and YOUR independent opinion suggest 1/500 you can either adjust the shutter by one stop to 1/500 or adjust the exp comp by 1 stop.

We all seem to be talking about taking pictures of black and white dogs and furry black sweaters. Instead I`ll talk about the clouds in the sky varying the exposure levels from one minute to the next. In Aperture Priority if my camera is off by a stop on my subject I can adjust the exp comp by a stop and negate any further changes to environment.

 

[ksmattfish]

But the light is always changing...

Is it? I run into very few situations where I find that so. Have you ever used an incident light meter? Reflective meters (like in cameras) measure tones in the scene. Incident meters measure light. Using an incident meter may give you a different perception of light.

I dont have time to look at the meter to see if its exposed right...

A great reason to learn to estimate exposure with your own eyes. It's not as hard as you think. The instant feedback of digital cameras make it easy to practice. Start with sunny 16, then check out Fred Parker's site http://www.fredparker.com/ultexp1.htm

And please stop comparing auto vs full manual, im mostly talking about a priority mode, not auto or program...

Modes and meters don't matter except in photo geek gab sessions. Accurate exposure is what matters. Modes and meters may help you estimate exposure more accurately. Any shame for using P or pride for using M will be completely forgotten and the photo will be judged on it's own merits as it's being viewed. Not how it was created.

...I dont see why I would ever want to ...

Then don't use M or whatever. Use the tools, techniques, and materials that bring you enjoyment and success. It doesn't matter what works for me or anyone else; it just matters what works for you.

If someone pulls some sort of condescending attitude because you aren't shooting in M, or RAW, or with film, or with prime lenses, or with medium format, or with cool brand name gear realize that they have to do this to get attention because they aren't proud of their own photos. If their photos were any good they could just kick back and say "Look at my work. I rock your world!" instead of trying to make you feel small because of the gear/techniques/materials you use. Don't fall for it.

 

[dEARlEADER]

Is it? I run into very few situations where I find that so. Have you ever used an incident light meter? Reflective meters (like in cameras) measure tones in the scene. Incident meters measure light. Using an incident meter may give you a different perception of light.



A great reason to learn to estimate exposure with your own eyes. It's not as hard as you think. The instant feedback of digital cameras make it easy to practice. Start with sunny 16, then check out Fred Parker's site http://www.fredparker.com/ultexp1.htm



Modes and meters don't matter except in photo geek gab sessions. Accurate exposure is what matters. Modes and meters may help you estimate exposure more accurately. Any shame for using P or pride for using M will be completely forgotten and the photo will be judged on it's own merits as it's being viewed. Not how it was created.



Then don't use M or whatever. Use the tools, techniques, and materials that bring you enjoyment and success. It doesn't matter what works for me or anyone else; it just matters what works for you.

If someone pulls some sort of condescending attitude because you aren't shooting in M, or RAW, or with film, or with prime lenses, or with medium format, or with cool brand name gear realize that they have to do this to get attention because they aren't proud of their own photos. If their photos were any good they could just kick back and say "Look at my work. I rock your world!" instead of trying to make you feel small because of the gear/techniques/materials you use. Don't fall for it.

Well said....

 

[prodigy2k7]

Why do our own eyes change them? To me this just seems illogical... You look at a room in your house lets say the wall. You look a few inches up and look directly at the light, more light is coming in isnt it? Why does it hurt your eyes.

 

[Bifurcator]

The lighting itself doesnt change, but how much light reflected does change. Different colors reflect different amounts of light doesnt it? Maybe im wrong...

Well try it. Get some colored papers, and set up the camera with a grey card and custom WB with a white card. Then shoot all the papers. They should be all dead on!

You gotta zoom, compose, and use manual to get the right metering... To me that sounds like it takes too long... Id rather let the computer compute it for me...

Oh, so it is a tiny bit of trolling then like dEARlEADER thought. I thought you were asking an honest question. Oh well, that's not important I guess.

Anyway, it's not perfect for every situation 100% of the time but it's better for me 80 to 90 percent of the time. It's almost never too slow to use if your camera has two dedicated dials like any camera should and I get way fewer dead shots in manual than I do in the auto or assist modes.

I need some help with this.

From the bulk of your post the way I understand it you pretty much disregard the cameras meter and use your eye to formulate appropriate aperture and shutter values. If this is the case you have reached photographic enlightenment....

Ohmmmm, ohmmm, ohmmm, breath, ohmmm, oh-burp-mm

If I am wrong than you are using your cameras meter as some point of reference to evaluate over or under exposure.

For over and under no. For the basic off of grey, yes. The over and under is in-brain and translates to thumb movements that adjust either the aperture or the shutter depending. You can't look at a scene through the lens with the f and s settings right there in view (from he grey-card reading), see a shadow you want detail in and make the decision to either open the aperture a little or select a slightly slower shutter speed and then put them back after the shot(s)? That's not god-like or enlightened is it? If it is I suddenly feel very special indeed!

If this is the case exp comp is exactly like manual when using a priority mode. If at 2.8 your camera meters suggests 1/250 and YOUR independent opinion suggest 1/500 you can either adjust the shutter by one stop to 1/500 or adjust the exp comp by 1 stop.

OK. But how is that like manual where you can adjust both on the fly with thumb-wheels? Beside the obvious exposure control differences isn't Comp usually tucked away in a menu setting somewhere? Comp is best used for situations where you know you camera meter is going to be metering a little too hot or consistently underexposing the frames for what you're trying to achieve. So you "compensate" for that with that setting. I guess you could do it... <shrug>

We all seem to be talking about taking pictures of black and white dogs and furry black sweaters. Instead I`ll talk about the clouds in the sky varying the exposure levels from one minute to the next. In Aperture Priority if my camera is off by a stop on my subject I can adjust the exp comp by a stop and negate any further changes to environment.

The OP specified sports. But hang-gliding should not be much different at all. And you're right of course if you have a sparse cloud layer rolling over head messing with the amount of available light then raise the blade, make that change, flick it on over to a priority assist mode. I would!

 

[usayit]

In an even lighted area (football stadium, day light field, even in the street), am I the only one that takes a single reading and shoot with it? Once the lighting changes (clouds roll in, sun rises higher, entering shade etc.), I take another reading (handheld), check it and again.. run/shoot with that setting. Perhaps, I'm old fashioned.. but I do also use Aperture Priority quite a bit as well.

 

[Bifurcator]

No, we're the same. :thumbup:

But if the clouds are marbled in the sky and changing the light every minute or so Then I guess we can get a better run of shots from an assist mode. No?


Actually it sounds like we're in the majority here too.

 

[ksmattfish]

You look at a room in your house lets say the wall. You look a few inches up and look directly at the light, more light is coming in isnt it?

Try it with an incident meter.

 

[prodigy2k7]

How often should you take another reading then? (No clouds) I mean when it just comes to the suns motion across the sky...

So your saying, lets say in horse racing, I can use the same exposure settings and snap away even tho the background is changing and colors are changing?

Thats, kinda...AWESOME lol...

Maybe I will do it...

 

[usayit]

No, we're the same. :thumbup:

But if the clouds are marbled in the sky and changing the light every minute or so Then I guess we can get a better run of shots from an assist mode. No?


Actually it sounds like we're in the majority here too.

On rare occasions but in most cases the clouds are dispersed enough that the readings are very close. Its pretty quick to adjust with a fraction of a stop.

Assist mode in this case can sometimes just complicate things and slow you down. As someone said... black jersey and white jersey.

 

[Bifurcator]

How often should you take another reading then? (No clouds) I mean when it just comes to the suns motion across the sky...

For me? From 10am to 2pm maybe you don't need to depending on what part of the Earth you're standing on while photographing. I guess before and after that noon arc only once an hour. When the sun is setting (~1hour period) and rising (same period) just use common sense. If an assist or Program mode is going to work better then do that.

So your saying, lets say in horse racing, I can use the same exposure settings and snap away even tho the background is changing and colors are changing?

Yes sir. you should be able to in almost all situations. Assuming you're exposing for the riders or horses. If it's at night and there are hot spots under each light either set it for the shot under the light or the in between places and then take your sequences from entry to exit of those areas. Usually the light on a night track for horses is pretty even though.

Thats, kinda...AWESOME lol...

Maybe I will do it...

Yeah, give it a try. It's fun!

On rare occasions but in most cases the clouds are dispersed enough that the readings are very close. Its pretty quick to adjust with a fraction of a stop.

Assist mode in this case can sometimes just complicate things and slow you down. As someone said... black jersey and white jersey.

Yup! Exactly right - on both counts!

I wonder if there is some climate (somewhere) where fast moving overhead marbly clouds are very very common? I suppose there would have to be as diverse as this good Earth is...