TSA's new photographer terrorist campaign

[skieur]

Don't get me wrong- I agree with you.

Google Earth- no, not a substitute for a ground level photograph.

Google Earth does provide ground level photos. I know because I am in one.

skieur

I'm not a Google Earth user so I can't really comment. But I'm sure they're not updated more than every few weeks/months, no?

You have to understand the way these guys operate... they may take a picture of a truck that's parked in the same place every day, then add a comment with an arrow (place package here ->) or a picture of a guard (watch out for this guy, he eats his lunch in this spot). Stuff like that.

Anyway, I think we're discussing two different things at this point. I agree the poster really isn't that good, doesn't accomplish its intended mission, and the whole campaign is probably ill-conceived.

However, the message of awareness is a good one. I was on a flight this year where someone left an unattended bag in the waiting area at the gate. Everyone was nervous and on edge. We spoke up and security took care of it. They found the guy playing video games 200 feet from his bag. Idiot almost closed the airport.

You are creating the impression of having problems with paranoia. Despite the B.S. that flies around the Internet, photos of airplanes or anything else do not lead to terrorism. I am sure that photos of the towers were NOT taken by terrorists prior to 9/11, and what would photos tell them that they did NOT already know.

As for photos of airplanes, any terrorist could phone up the manufacturer and get a complete folder, images and specifications sent out to him/her.
Why would photos be useful?

Use your brain and logic.

skieur

 

[Derrel]

It was a lot more than 5 or 10 minutes- they looked for the guy for almost 30 minutes before finding him- they even paged him a few times over the airport PA system. And the bag was there for quite awhile before security was notified.

It's nice to spout off that it is trivial. But if you were there you may have felt different. I know I did. Think about it from the other side for a moment- with all the stuff going on in the world, why would anyone leave an unattended bag in an airport? I have to think because their IQ is somewhere around 4.

I'm not going to get into a debate on worldwide terrorism and security on a photography forum, so this will be my last post on the issue.

There needs to be awareness and vigilance, IMO. However, as I said, I do agree that the poster didn't get the job done.

Why would somebody leave an unattended bag in an airport??? OMG...I can think of fifty to sixty reasons right off the top of my head. I even listed a handful in my original reply. Clearly, an unattended suitcase is a trivial,trivial thing. Oh, no wait,wait,wait--it means there's a TERRORIST and DEATH TO AMERICA is just around the corner! yeah, that's right...an unattended suitcase, full of cheap clothes from Ross Dress For Less, that fit only their owner, means mayhem! Terror! Death! Please, give it a rest.

"Paranoia do destroy ya"...ever heard that lyric?

Why don't we as a country, go back to being afraid of "the Black man"? Or "the commies" or "the red menace" or "swine flu" or "nuclear armageddon"?

"Duck and Cover." Look it up. Then, move forward 50 years, and look up WMD, and lunacy. Then, get back to us with a full report.

 

[LokiZ]

Is it just me or was the photo on the poster more along the lines of a snapshot?

Maybe someone from TSA took the picture instead of hiring someone because they couldn't find a photographer who would stoop so low?

Shouldn't this be considered at least some sort of Libel statement on TSA's part?

Definition of libel 4: Libel per se describes statements, which are widely understood to be harmful to a person's reputation. For example, referring to an individual (Photographer) as an alcoholic or criminal, or any description, (Terrorist) which would lower the reputation of that individual in the eyes of others. These words are harmful and libelous.

Definition of libel 9: Published material meeting three conditions: The material is defamatory either on its face or indirectly; The defamatory statement is about someone who is identifiable to one or more persons; (Photograhers) and, The material must be distributed to someone other than the offended party; (The Public) i.e. published; distinguished from slander.

The hard part may be proving that TSA has malicious intent toward photographers. But one has to ask why could they not have made their sign with out the camera being in the image? To me that is singling out an individual, the photographer. If only there was a lawyer to work for us probono on this issue. I mean all we are really asking is that they remove the add or remove the camera correct?

Definition of Libel - Defamation of Character

Just my 2 cents.

Edit: Also it does not to me even look like he is photographing that particular plane. <Shrug>

 

[Josh66]

I don’t see how taking pictures of aircraft could even benefit a terrorist. You can find pictures of specific aircraft all over the internet. You can also find detailed specifications and information on them as well.

Maybe I am missing something though...

The terrorists don't have internet. Same reason you can't take pictures of bridges, highways, dams, power plants, etc...

Yes, you can find pictures of all that stuff with a quick search online - probably drawings of them too, they don't have that luxury - living in a cave and all...

Thank god they don't have access to the internet, and have to resort to actually going there and taking pictures of it. Otherwise, we would never know what they were planning on attacking next.

 

[Derrel]

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[orb9220]

Good examples of the stupidly blind induced fear for the lemmings,sheep crowds of humans without a brain. Which translate over to all other aspects of our society.

Gee as an old fart. I can't even walk through a park with my camera at my side without the Laser-Beam eyes of condemnation of a "Perv" ready to pounce if I draw my flithy camera up to my eye. Or yep taking pics at the amtrak,federal building brings enmass security thugs spouting out erroneous legal jargon that they even haven't looked up what the words mean. Or understand they are the ones violating the law.

Even tried to stop me outside their permit zone from photographing the "Leverage" TV series filming outside my building which has happened twice so far. Stating Legal jargon. I told them they were full of it and kept shooting. Once was from my window in my own building and No I wasn't in their filming frame shot.

Geeze where is Darwin when we Need him? The lack of Common Sense and Rational Thought with a dash of Critical Thinking skills are missing from the masses. I am consistently flabbergasted by what I see and hear said by others around me. And just shake my head knowing We as a species just might not have what it takes to make it.

"Good evening, America. Allow me first to apologize for this interruption. I do, like many of you, appreciate the comforts of every day routine- the security of the familiar, the tranquility of repetition. I enjoy them as much as any bloke.

But in the spirit of commemoration, thereby those important events of the past usually associated with someone's death or the end of some awful bloody struggle, a celebration of a nice holiday, I thought we could mark this November the 5th, a day that is sadly no longer remembered, by taking some time out of our daily lives to sit down and have a little chat.

There are of course those who do not want us to speak. I suspect even now, orders are being shouted into telephones, and men with guns will soon be on their way. Why?

Because while the truncheon may be used in lieu of conversation, words will always retain their power. Words offer the means to meaning, and for those who will listen, the enunciation of truth. And the truth is, there is something terribly wrong with this country, isn't there? Cruelty and injustice, intolerance and oppression.

And where once you had the freedom to object, to think and speak as you saw fit, you now have censors and systems of surveillance coercing your conformity and soliciting your submission. How did this happen? Who's to blame? Well certainly there are those more responsible than others, and they will be held accountable, but again truth be told, if you're looking for the guilty, you need only look into a mirror.

I know why you did it. I know you were afraid. Who wouldn't be? War, terror, disease. There were a myriad of problems which conspired to corrupt your reason and rob you of your common sense. Fear got the best of you!

Quoted from one my fav movies "V for Vendetta"
.

 

[Village Idiot]

I will be acquiring and watching that movie tonight.

 

[Josh66]

^^^Good movie. Almost like the 'new' 1984, but with a graphic novel twist.

 

[orb9220]

Another of my favs tho some didn't like it.
Equilibrium (2002)

 

[usayit]

V Vendetta.... great movie!

1984

and Brave New World

They are so applicable today that its scary... Let's start putting babies on electrified floors with pictures of "terrorists" (or whatever other boogey man we can come up with) to start their paranoia early, shall we?

 

[supraman215]

LISTEN TO The Show - No Agenda - With Adam Curry and John C. Dvorak

99% of you would benefit greatly from this podcast.

Back to the second poster, who has disappeared, which often happens to these people when rational thought is injected into a discussion, I will not accept the abhorrent restriction of my liberties in place of "security." However when it comes to private property the owner of the property has the rights. Not sure who is the owner of the property because I don't know that much about airports. But there are PLENTY of articles on that site where the property is clearly public and people are given a very hard time for taking pictures.

once again,
LISTEN TO The Show - No Agenda - With Adam Curry and John C. Dvorak

 

[Scatterbrained]

The TSA is the reason why I now drive just about everywhere. As to the poster who thinks they are actually trained to tell a terrorist from a hobbyist, you are giving them far too much credit.

 

[PenguinPhotoWrx]

Back to the second poster, who has disappeared, which often happens to these people when rational thought is injected into a discussion

So now I'm "these people?" I don't appreciate that. I haven't disappeared. I've moved on to posting in more technical threads that actually involve photography on the forum since this one seems to be so polarizing. As I said in one of my other posts (which you obviously missed), I'm not going to get into a debate on worldwide terrorism on a photography forum (if I wanted to do that I'd go to the CNN or FOXNews web sites), so that was my last post on the issue. I'm only posting this response because I am being called out, which I don't totally appreciate.

I actually regret posting in this thread to begin with and I won't make the mistake of posting in threads such as this again.

 

[supraman215]

I won't discuss politics further on this thread.

 

[Garbz]

How many pros or advanced amateurs would be taking pictures through the fence anyway?

Why not? At f/2.8 you won't even see a chain link fence in the picture. I've taken some great photos through a fence in my time.

Approach the airport, TSA, whatever, and obtain clearance to take the photos you want to take. If you ask permission and go through their proper channels, I bet you get access and don't get hassled.

I'm going to call you out. You've clearly never done this before. Reminds me of the story of the two photographers who obtained written signed permission from the operator of a rail network in America, along with proof that taking photos of the rail network in not an offence, and then spent an evening in jail when they refused to leave when confronted by police.

Taking a sensitive stance on these issues is just another way of grabbing your ankles and saying "do me"! No one cares. You're now bending over backwards to do something that is entirely legal while the average person has no idea that you're being unfairly prosecuted.

Not until you organise 1000 people to gather to promote awareness of the issue do you even make the news. And even with this event in Sydney all that ended up being reported was a feel good story on page 15 of the local newspaper. http://www.artsfreedomaustralia.com...10/08/SIMMONDS_GMPHOTO_AFA-RALLYIMG_82175.jpg

I'm not a Google Earth user so I can't really comment. But I'm sure they're not updated more than every few weeks/months, no?

No it isn't but that didn't stop various governments implicating the use of Google Earth in terrorist attacks in the past. But then what about going to the source? The local company which does the mapping for Australia provides online free access to satellite images of cities and it's updated monthly.




This isn't about raising awareness. This is about the fact that someguy in a hoodie and a nice camera is suddenly labelled as a suspect, whereas in reality terrorism does not work like this. The end result is we suffer for NO greater good. I don't think you quite comprehend this.