Upgrading PC or buyin a new one

[selo]

Hi, i didn;t buy the monitor with it. We have a phillips monitor with 16,7 million colors, not sure how to figure out the bits of it.

Our computer max ram is 8gb so i can't upgrade that. SSd would deff help, i installed a SSD in my laptop and its a big improvement. Why exactly do I need a new videocard and the new power supply? How would that effect the performance?

 

[sashbar]

I think this is the same with OSX vs Windows, OSX is probably more stable but a little limited, windows the opposite. Right?

When I switched to Mac my first thoughts were "The OS X is so limited compared to Win 7, it is like a toy". Then I started to discover various options and shortcuts and realised it was all there, and the system was not so limited at all, just different.

But I do not share opinions of experienced Mac users who think Windows is so inferior. I thing most of them have switched years ago when Windows were indeed poor. Now the gap is very close as far as I can judge now with my limited Mac experience. These are just different platforms.

There are some things though that I do not like and have not yet found ways to fix.

I can not see the subfolders in the side bar as it was with Windows, where you can open subfolders with one folder in the right window and with the other inside the side bar and can drag files from one subfolder to the other. With Mac I have to open another window. That takes one more comm-N click, but still is annoying tbh.
If someone knows a way to change it, your feedback is welcome. I suspect there must be an option, but I am unable to find it.
The other thing that bugs me big time is lack of forward delete button, you have to press Fn-Delete. On the other hand touchpad is miles ahead of Windows.
The OS X apps system looks more closed than the Win programmes system.
So it takes time to get used to. But you can not deny the overall quality of the whole package.
I have bought it with 3 year Apple care plan which means everything will be cared for for 3 years, after that lets hope it is as reliable as they say. Anyway, nearly all my Windows laptops lasted for about 4 years before something started to go wrong and I needed an new one. You know however good a Win laptop is, there is always something be it a weak hinge, or a bad touchpad, or a wrong monitor or some plastic thing that wears out fast, always something is wrong... With my Mac one thing that surprised me - you can not insert a SD card all the way, it sticks out. A small thing, but disappointing, not convenient if you want to put it in the bag etc.
My MBP is quad core i7, 16 Gb RAM, 550 Gb SSD and NVIDIA 750, so lets hope it will serve me much longer than usual 4-5 years of my Win machines lifespan. As for the software, yes, I had a lot of Win soft that I can not use now. I realised that most of it I have not used for a long time anyway

Having said all that, if I had my own desk I would have bought a desktop PC with a good monitor, I agree with the guys here, but I do not have this luxury, our only desk is highjacked by my daughter.

 

[KenC]

What is the problem with your current set-up? I have a 4 1/2 yr old iMac with an i3 processor and 4 GB ram and I don't have any problems (as in no delay at all) using CS5 with files up to about 150 MB. If you handle much larger files that's different, but you shouldn't really need more than you have unless your requirements are really stringent or there's some problem with the hardware.

 

[selo]

i have been testing the computer.... seems like it gets very slow loading stuff and freezes untill it opens. So its certainly a hard drve issue. I probably clean it up see how it goes after but I will upgrade it to a SSD for sure.

Ironmask advised to upgrade with
250gb ssd = $80 (sales)
8gb RAM = $70 (sales)
R7 250x video card + $110
Corsair CX430 PSU = $35

Cant get more RAM, but why exactly do I need a new videocard and the new power supply? How would that effect the performance?

 

[IronMaskDuval]

i have been testing the computer.... seems like it gets very slow loading stuff and freezes untill it opens. So its certainly a hard drve issue. I probably clean it up see how it goes after but I will upgrade it to a SSD for sure.

Ironmask advised to upgrade with
250gb ssd = $80 (sales)
8gb RAM = $70 (sales)
R7 250x video card + $110
Corsair CX430 PSU = $35

Cant get more RAM, but why exactly do I need a new videocard and the new power supply? How would that effect the performance?

The psu would only be needed if you upgrade to a video card that requires its own line of power, assuming that yours does not. The video card can pick up graphical tasks and take the load off of the cpu, but for the one I recommended, it may only be a step up from your current one.

Why only 8gb of ram? What mobo are you using?

 

[selo]

What is mobo?

Acer Aspire X3990 PT.SGKE2.093 - Specificaties - Tweakers this site says that the 8gb ram is the max for my computer... is it not?

 

[IronMaskDuval]

Photoshop's minimum system requirements include a display that can display a minimum color depth of 16-bits.

The $300 Asus display recommended above is only 10-bits of color capable, and does not meet Adobe Photoshop minimum system requirements.
ASUS PA248Q 24-Inch LED-Lit IPS Professional Graphics Monitor

I am not aware of any $300 display that can display the minimum required 16-bit color.

Most people cannot afford a monitor or adapter that supports 16 bit

What is mobo?

Acer Aspire X3990 PT.SGKE2.093 - Specificaties - Tweakers this site says that the 8gb ram is the max for my computer... is it not?

That seems to be the case. Mobo = motherboard. Perhaps it is time to buy a new computer and purchase an ssd to go with it.

 

[selo]

I see... so get a new comp because of ram issues. i might a ssd first and install it on this one first and see how it goes. later i can buy a new comp and switch the ssd to the new one.

For ssd i think the samsung evo 840 250gb is very good... i got the pro version on my laptop

 

[IronMaskDuval]

I see... so get a new comp because of ram issues. i might a ssd first and install it on this one first and see how it goes. later i can buy a new comp and switch the ssd to the new one.

For ssd i think the samsung evo 840 250gb is very good... i got the pro version on my laptop

That will do! The easiest way to find your bottle neck is to monitor task manager and see what's slowing you down.

 

[selo]

Yeah, thats exactly what i did. Ram seems fine, processor is sometimes clocking but thats for a short period. I cant see the harddisk performance in taskmanager in windows 7 though. But im pretty sure the harddisk is slowing it down. Mainly when exporting from lightroom or booting the pc or programs its much slower than my laptop. I think a SSD is going to speed it up maybe 3-4 times. Will buy the samsung evo 840 250gb

Thanks for the info all, learned a lot!

 

[Tailgunner]

A computer display needs to be re-calibrated on a routine basis.
Most editing pros re-calibrate their editing display(s) at least monthly.

X-Rite ColorMunki Display

I just bought this and can't get it to work on my 21.5" Mac. The reviews mentioned it was good but when I dove in a little deeper, I ran across people having issues with using it with Apple. Apple also stopped supporting some forms of this as well. It's been a hassle for sure.

 

[Tailgunner]

- Regarding workstations, be aware that most (all?) Xeon systems take expensive ECC Registered RAM and that Photoshop specifically does not really take advantage of multithreading much as you'd expect. In fact, my machine doesn't out-perform less expensive faster machines with fewer threads. However, these systems are extremely well-built, stable and reliable. But overall, I'd highly recommend the Dell T-series over consumer-oriented stuff - even if you'd need to save a bit for a monitor.

But be aware, if you are planing to upgrade a T5610 video card, it can be tricky. There is only 300W to work and your space is really limited. You can upgrade the PSU, but they are stupid expensive. Mine came with a Quadro K2000, which seems plenty sufficient for Photoshop.

- You of course can build your own, it's not hard and you *may* save some money. But there are some disadvantages to that as well.

I've been researching workstations, Photoshop may not fully utilize the processor but it shouldn't it benefit from the video cards?

Reviews may show Apple being the best computer for Photography but your typical store bought systems (PC or Mac) comes with what I call a "Consumer" grade video card. Even Nvidia has stated their general video cards don't function with Photoshop and recommend their "Professional" video cards...cards not found in general consumer computers in stores including the Apple store. The only machines I've found thus far that comes with a decent professional video card has been workstations. Unless you custom build one.

 

[unpopular]

I've been researching workstations, Photoshop may not fully utilize the processor but it shouldn't it benefit from the video cards?

Reviews may show Apple being the best computer for Photography but your typical store bought systems (PC or Mac) comes with what I call a "Consumer" grade video card. Even Nvidia has stated their general video cards don't function with Photoshop and recommend their "Professional" video cards...cards not found in general consumer computers in stores including the Apple store. The only machines I've found thus far that comes with a decent professional video card has been workstations. Unless you custom build one.

Well. I have a K2000, which is the first tier in the Quadro K-series, so I don't really know. Not a whole lot is known about AMD cards in the Mac Pro. I am guessing they are similar to (really over priced) W600. I think that when you hear about the mac pro video cards, you're hearing a lot from people who use consumer cards, and yeah, workstation cards seem pretty weak by comparison if you're looking at the numbers alone. Most of these people haven't used a Mac Pro and think that the sole qualification of a powerful computer is how fast it runs Call of Doodie. Getting good information about workstations online is very difficult. I've found that the internet is heavily polluted with teenagers who have literally no idea what a workstation is.

There is a LOT of debate over consumer versus workstation video cards. For pure number crunching, consumer cards often out-perform workstation cards, and people will often point out that Nvidia's Keplar cards use the same architecture on both GTX and Quadro. However, when testing for OpenGL performance, the Quadros typically out perform the GTX. So, there is something that does differ, whether this is hardware or software doesn't much matter.

I know that Adobe products use CUDA as well as OpenCL, and this *might* be where the consumer Nvidia cards fall short. I've heard that AMD cards work better with Premier, so this would suggest that, at least as far as Premier goes, OpenCL is better optimized.

However, if that is the case AMD cards, both professional and consumer perform very well under OpenCL, so if you don't need the OpenGL viewport it might be better to go with an AMD consumer card - and FirePro cards from AMD likely perform equally well under OpenGL as Nvidia cards do.

If you need a CUDA compute unit, you might be better off getting both a FirePro for display and GTX 900-series (or four) as a the compute nodes. Whether this will realistically improve Photoshop performance is anyone's guess (i have serious doubts). It might just be that Nvidia claims that GTX doesn't run well with Photoshop to convince people that they need a $1500 K5000 when PLENTY of people use $100 GTX 500-series cards with no issue what so ever.

That said, the Mac Pro is a fine machine and has a proven performance record. If you're the type of person who won't likely upgrade and you have thousands of dollars burning a hole in your pocket, it's a good solution - and frankly, no more expensive than similar workstations from HP or Dell. In fact, when you're buying new, non-refurbished units, the Mac Pro is probably one of the less expensive options out there in the very expensive world of workstations.

When I switched to Mac my first thoughts were "The OS X is so limited compared to Win 7, it is like a toy". Then I started to discover various options and shortcuts and realised it was all there, and the system was not so limited at all, just different.

You hear this complaint a lot from people who don't know how to use MacOS. It's completely untrue. From an OS standpoint, there is nothing that you can't do on MacOS that you can on Windows.

 

[Tailgunner]

I've been researching workstations, Photoshop may not fully utilize the processor but it shouldn't it benefit from the video cards?

Reviews may show Apple being the best computer for Photography but your typical store bought systems (PC or Mac) comes with what I call a "Consumer" grade video card. Even Nvidia has stated their general video cards don't function with Photoshop and recommend their "Professional" video cards...cards not found in general consumer computers in stores including the Apple store. The only machines I've found thus far that comes with a decent professional video card has been workstations. Unless you custom build one.

Well. I have a K2000, which is the first tier in the Quadro K-series, so I don't really know. Not a whole lot is known about AMD cards in the Mac Pro. I am guessing they are similar to (really over priced) W600. I think that when you hear about the mac pro video cards, you're hearing a lot from people who use consumer cards, and yeah, workstation cards seem pretty weak by comparison if you're looking at the numbers alone. Most of these people haven't used a Mac Pro and think that the sole qualification of a powerful computer is how fast it runs Call of Doodie. Getting good information about workstations online is very difficult. I've found that the internet is heavily polluted with teenagers who have literally no idea what a workstation is.

There is a LOT of debate over consumer versus workstation video cards. For pure number crunching, consumer cards often out-perform workstation cards, and people will often point out that Nvidia's Keplar cards use the same architecture on both GTX and Quadro. However, when testing for OpenGL performance, the Quadros typically out perform the GTX. So, there is something that does differ, whether this is hardware or software doesn't much matter.

I know that Adobe products use CUDA as well as OpenCL, and this *might* be where the consumer Nvidia cards fall short. I've heard that AMD cards work better with Premier, so this would suggest that, at least as far as Premier goes, OpenCL is better optimized.

However, if that is the case AMD cards, both professional and consumer perform very well under OpenCL, so if you don't need the OpenGL viewport it might be better to go with an AMD consumer card - and FirePro cards from AMD likely perform equally well under OpenGL as Nvidia cards do.

If you need a CUDA compute unit, you might be better off getting both a FirePro for display and GTX 900-series (or four) as a the compute nodes. Whether this will realistically improve Photoshop performance is anyone's guess (i have serious doubts). It might just be that Nvidia claims that GTX doesn't run well with Photoshop to convince people that they need a $1500 K5000 when PLENTY of people use $100 GTX 500-series cards with no issue what so ever.

That said, the Mac Pro is a fine machine and has a proven performance record. If you're the type of person who won't likely upgrade and you have thousands of dollars burning a hole in your pocket, it's a good solution - and frankly, no more expensive than similar workstations from HP or Dell. In fact, when you're buying new, non-refurbished units, the Mac Pro is probably one of the less expensive options out there in the very expensive world of workstations.

Thanks,

Yes, locating intelligent pros and cos concerning Mac and Workstations has been challenging. A lot of the reviews I ran across when searching for professional photography computers talked about cosmetics and price, but nothing technical. All of them talking about your typical consumer bought machine from Bestbuy etc.

My situation I'm frustrated dealing with color banding. I'm at my whits end with it. My current Mac 21.5 is absolutely horrible. I've tried everything and nothing helps. The more I research it the more I wonder if a more professional setup is in order. Something like the Mac Pro. It tools some hunting but I found what I believe to be reliable information talking about the AMD like you mentioned. I don't think I need a $10,000 machine and believe their base Mac Pro or intermediate version should surface. That combined with a good high res monitor should work.

Funny, I never had any real issues with this using my Macbook Pro or my old PC laptop. It was there but no where as pronounced.

 

[sashbar]

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