Used equipment for beginners?

[Derrel]

i agree, if you're buying for travel look at mirrorless cameras, They are smaller and lighter with all the features of a DSLR and can easily use DSLR lens.

or look at a used or refurbished Canon and lens if you want the best value
www.flickr.com/photos/mmirrorless

Beagle posts this same nonsense everywhere. I simply have to vehemently disagree with the cannard he posts every time, which is "Easily use" DSLR lenses, which in actuality means NO autofocus, no diaphragm automation, missed focus on many shots, limited light metering modes, limited flash metering modes and other system incompatibilities...perhaps 40 to 75% compatibility with whatever camera one happens to have is what Beagle means by "easily use DSLR lenses"?

Mirrorless: the new religion. Zealots spreading lies about it, over and over in little cannards like "easily use DSLR lenses":.Easily? Hardly. "Use"? Again, if limited metering, limited flash modes, no autofocusing, and other incompatibilities meand "easily used" then--we've got a new Beagle-definition of the word "easily".

Beagle's mirrorless zealotry borders on ridiculous fanatacism, as he tries to convert newbie buyer after newbie buyer with a big lie. Oh, excuse me.. a cannard...a lie by a prettier name.

Spreading bullspit about mirrorless cameras and lenses is really beneath this poster, and this forum. It's about time we put a stop to somebodyrepeating a lie over and over and over again, especially in a forum dedicated to HELPING people make accurate decisions based on truths, not on lies and personal whackery.

 

[Derrel]

Oh, and another part of the lie he repeats: "with all the features of a DSLR"

Uh..NO, sorry, but NOT TRUE AT ALL. You want a camera that can fire 3,000 shots over two days on ONE, single battery charge??? Lookat a Nikon d-slr...OR, buy a mirrorless with the same capabilitis, and be prepared to burn through five or six batteries PER DAY, or 300 to 400 shots PER CHARGE!

"All the features" of? Laughing my butt off!!!

Compare a mirrorless camera model against ANY Canon or Nikon d-slr...and look at the teeny-tiny systems the mirrorless cameras offer, then look at the hundreds and hundreds of items that Canon and Nikon d-slr cameras have available for their users!

 

[Dave442]

Just to note that I am still using a couple D200 bodies. One given to me to get me to move from film to digital and the second one I bought used as I wanted the grip and it just happened to come with a camera attached. Both were low shutter actuation bodies and they are both around 100k now. They follow the Nikon line of everything is focused on taking the picture. I have used the D300, D700, D800, D500 and they all follow the same button layout with just one or two differences so it is easy to pick up one of these other bodies if you find that you really like photography. While those used bodies are very cheap, spend money on the lenses, although you can start cheap with something like the 35mm f/1.8DX lens. The D700 is also a very nice body, but a lot larger for tossing in the travel bag.

 

[Shutterdog]

Well, a D700 is sadly "only" rated for a 150k shutter count. Mind you thats a very conservative estimate of the producer; most D700 should actually manage more actuations.

The actual shutter count ultimately depends a lot upon how you treat the camera. Do you keep the back of the lenses clean. Do you keep the rear lenscaps clean. Do you keep the lensmount clean.

Usually people dont - and thats why dust enters their camera and kills the shutter blades.

With a used camera you dont know what the previous owner did, but again - usually they dont realize how important this is.

Thats why a 111k shuttercount wouldnt fly with me.

And it's also why the price remains very low on that auction. As tempted as I am, I'll keep looking until I find a better deal.

 

[Shutterdog]

Just to note that I am still using a couple D200 bodies. One given to me to get me to move from film to digital and the second one I bought used as I wanted the grip and it just happened to come with a camera attached. Both were low shutter actuation bodies and they are both around 100k now. They follow the Nikon line of everything is focused on taking the picture. I have used the D300, D700, D800, D500 and they all follow the same button layout with just one or two differences so it is easy to pick up one of these other bodies if you find that you really like photography. While those used bodies are very cheap, spend money on the lenses, although you can start cheap with something like the 35mm f/1.8DX lens. The D700 is also a very nice body, but a lot larger for tossing in the travel bag.

There are a few d300 in my watch list on ebay. A d200 with a couple lens would be interesting I think.

 

[Shutterdog]

How about Sony?

Theres an interesting a200 with two Minolta lens... I don't know anyone who even tried those.

 

[Solarflare]

No surprise there. Its basically a dead system.

 

[Shutterdog]

No surprise there. Its basically a dead system.

So... To avoid?

 

[Derrel]

I've bought a lot of used lenses and cameras over the last four decades; usd gear is a GREAT way to save money, and to be able to afford vastly MORE 'stuff' than if you buy all-new, all the time.

Honestly: I thyink the NEW-era Nikons with their superior sensor performance are much better than older, cheap, used cameras. The D200 and D300 Nikons, the Canon30D and 40D, all that stuff is old-tech and has limited dynamic range and real,serious problems on over-exposed images and blown exposures in the under-exposed direction as well. I would bypass ALL old-tech bodies, and buy a Nikon D3300 or D3400 or D5200 or higher model, used, and start off with what is basically, a camera that can handle all sorts of blown exposures, and can recover images to an astounding degree; that is the thing that Canon's behind on, and that Nikon and the new Sony and new Pentax d-slrs offer: ISO invariability, and the ability to software-correct a photo that was shot at utterly ridiculous degrees of 'wrong exposure" settings in the field. This can be used deliberately, by setting the shutter really fast in the field, and creating an almost-black image but one shot with a motion-stopping speed of say, 1/800 second in bad lighting, but which is then "lifted" from almsot-black and "up", to a decent exposure. This is where the new-generation Sony, Nikon,and pentax cameras excel!

I dunno...buy used, get a couple of decent lenses, start in on the game. But, do not buy into old, outdated tech just because it is low in cost: the good cameras (for the most part) started in 2012, and are newer than that. AVOID older-tech cameras as a beginner, and you automatically give yourself a HUGE advantage, on every shot you make. Look at the DxO Mark sensor scores: I've owned cameras in the 56 and 67 range, and they are rubbish in tough light, not much better than color slide film was, and new-sensor Nikon gear with 87 and higher sensor scores: the performance there at 87 or so is **astoundingly good**.

Getting into Nikon's D600,D610,D750,D500,D800 and up...those sensors are amazingly good, and so are the higher-model D3300 and D3400 and D5300 and newer, as well as the D7100 and D7200 cameras: just amazing image quality, at various price levels.

 

[dxqcanada]

How about Sony?

Theres an interesting a200 with two Minolta lens... I don't know anyone who even tried those.

The Sony A200 is wayyyy too old tech to be worth picking up. If you are aiming towards lower costs in used product then I say stick to Nikon as there is soooo much stuff available for fair pricing. It is harder to get cheap Minolta/Sony lenses (trust me, I've been/am there) ... Sony has some great stuff if you have $$.

 

[dxqcanada]

... though, there is a Sony SLT-A58 with kit lens listed on eBay (from a Canadian seller) that is at a pretty good buy now price. That model is not bad ... I had the SLT-A55 and 57.

 

[waday]

OP, if you start looking at Sony, check which ones have EVF vs OVF. You said you want OVF.

 

[dxqcanada]

Ah, yeah I forgot to mention that point (that Wade brought up) ... A58 is EVF ... if you want to know about it just ask me as I have been using EVF cameras for some time now.

 

[fmw]

i agree, if you're buying for travel look at mirrorless cameras, They are smaller and lighter with all the features of a DSLR and can easily use DSLR lens.

or look at a used or refurbished Canon and lens if you want the best value
www.flickr.com/photos/mmirrorless

Beagle posts this same nonsense everywhere. I simply have to vehemently disagree with the cannard he posts every time, which is "Easily use" DSLR lenses, which in actuality means NO autofocus, no diaphragm automation, missed focus on many shots, limited light metering modes, limited flash metering modes and other system incompatibilities...perhaps 40 to 75% compatibility with whatever camera one happens to have is what Beagle means by "easily use DSLR lenses"?

Mirrorless: the new religion. Zealots spreading lies about it, over and over in little cannards like "easily use DSLR lenses":.Easily? Hardly. "Use"? Again, if limited metering, limited flash modes, no autofocusing, and other incompatibilities meand "easily used" then--we've got a new Beagle-definition of the word "easily".

Beagle's mirrorless zealotry borders on ridiculous fanatacism, as he tries to convert newbie buyer after newbie buyer with a big lie. Oh, excuse me.. a cannard...a lie by a prettier name.

Spreading bullspit about mirrorless cameras and lenses is really beneath this poster, and this forum. It's about time we put a stop to somebodyrepeating a lie over and over and over again, especially in a forum dedicated to HELPING people make accurate decisions based on truths, not on lies and personal whackery.

Derrell, I can't help but say that your reaction makes you look fearful of mirrorless cameras. Didn't you use cameras easily prior to the advent of autofocus? I did. I have a manual lens in my mirrorless system and have no problem using it. Beagle isn't lying. He is expressing opinions that differ from yours. Personally, I won't go back to DSLR's after having my mirrorless system.

Since you don't like mirrorless cameras, don't buy them. But don't criticize people who prefer them to DSLR's.

 

[fmw]

I'm not trying to corrupt your preference for optical finders. But at least you should know that electronic finders have at least one benefit that I consider valuable. They can display what your image will look like at whatever exposure settings you or or meter have set. If it is a little dark, you can dial in some compensation or other setting and see the effect of the change in real time.