Using Filters. Yes, No, Maybe?

[Infidel]

The ND filters will tone down very bright areas so the camera recording range is not overloaded. i.e prevent detailless bright or dark areas.

I don't understand how a ND filter can selectively tone down very bright areas without also darkening shadows....unless you are referring to a graduated ND filter. It is my understanding that a ND filter does not compress the luminance range, rather it shifts the entire histogram to the left, independent of relative brightness. The same effect (on the histogram, that is) can be obtained by reducing the exposure via aperture, shutter speed, or ISO. ND filters are typically used to enable slower shutter speeds or larger apertures (for creative effects) in bright lighting conditions.

Maybe there is something missing from my understanding; could you (or anyone else) please explain how this works?

You are mostly correct and also lacking creativity. If you were creative you could answer your own question.

For example when shooting into the setting sun I will use several non graduated ND filters (10 or more stops) hand held to line up the bottom edge with the horizon. And no, the camera cannot focus on the edges of the filters so it don't show.

Creativity? Cut out a small circle of an ND filter (like a welding shade) stick it to a clear piece of glass and tone down a moon. If anyone just gasped in horror at the thought of degraded image quality then I again refer to this link. Dirty lens article

I assumed you were referring to conventional use of ND filters by screwing them to the lens filter mount. There is a misconception floating around on the internet that ND filters can effectively compress luminance range (tone down highlights, ect). The use you're referring to, in my view, corresponds more closely to that of a graduated ND filter, which similarly attenuates light in only part of the image.

FWIW, I'm not sure the jab at my creativity was really necessary; I certainly didn't mean to ruffle any feathers with my post. I don't know...maybe you were just trying to be helpful, but it came across as a bit pedantic. I was merely asking for clarification, which you have now provided, so thanks.

 

[Derrel]

The larger ones work great as coasters for beer and soda cans and bottles...they give your house or apartment that "pha-tah-gra-fuhr" look!

I can't begin to explain how awesome of an idea this is. Have you seen the Camera Lens Mug, Derrell? That may be right up your ally.

HEY--I am not joking man! I'm serious...they make great coasters!

You ought to see my cocktail shakers--I have some beautiful 1960's vintage stainless steel Honeywell-Nikor film developing tanks...I actually use them at parties to make cocktails in...people think it's "cute" and they "get it"... for drinks made by shaking over crushed or cubed ice, the darkroom tanks work great! The built-in light-proof lid has a baffle, which keeps all the ice inside the thank, and only lets out the boozy goodness and the mixer!!!

 

[o hey tyler]

The ND filters will tone down very bright areas so the camera recording range is not overloaded. i.e prevent detailless bright or dark areas.

I don't understand how a ND filter can selectively tone down very bright areas without also darkening shadows....unless you are referring to a graduated ND filter. It is my understanding that a ND filter does not compress the luminance range, rather it shifts the entire histogram to the left, independent of relative brightness. The same effect (on the histogram, that is) can be obtained by reducing the exposure via aperture, shutter speed, or ISO. ND filters are typically used to enable slower shutter speeds or larger apertures (for creative effects) in bright lighting conditions.

Maybe there is something missing from my understanding; could you (or anyone else) please explain how this works?

You are mostly correct and also lacking creativity. If you were creative you could answer your own question.

For example when shooting into the setting sun I will use several non graduated ND filters (10 or more stops) hand held to line up the bottom edge with the horizon. And no, the camera cannot focus on the edges of the filters so it don't show.

Creativity? Cut out a small circle of an ND filter (like a welding shade) stick it to a clear piece of glass and tone down a moon. If anyone just gasped in horror at the thought of degraded image quality then I again refer to this link. Dirty lens article

First of all, the link that you posted has no relevance to using filters. Causing direct damage to a lens is completely different than refracting light through another piece of glass or two. Every time light passes through glass, and is refracted, IQ is lost. More-so by from cheap filters, because they just give the light more opportunities to bounce around. Multi coated filters/glass are specifically designed to reduce ghosting and flare while keeping reasonably high IQ.

 

[sleist]

As stated in the 2nd post to THIS thread, a UV filter might have saved the day ...

 

[c.cloudwalker]

HAHA! I don't know...because I'm a girl...and I like to shop?? Figured I would figure it out! I bought the camera with out a single clue on how to use it too....

Thumbs up to you for just saying that, lol. No matter what people say here, that is the way most cameras are bought.

So, now, about these filters, it would kind of depend on what they are exactly and what camera you bought...

Let's assume you have a digital camera. Throw away the UV fiter. No use for it.

The Polarizer really depends on whether it is a circular one or not. If C it can be used with a digital camera and is great for landscape photo. If not a C and your camera is digital, throw it out.

The FLD filter can also go in the trash. That is a filter from the film days that is not used anymore.

Keep having fun shopping and shooting.

Can we see your work?

 

[sobolik]

I don't understand how a ND filter can selectively tone down very bright areas without also darkening shadows....unless you are referring to a graduated ND filter. It is my understanding that a ND filter does not compress the luminance range, rather it shifts the entire histogram to the left, independent of relative brightness. The same effect (on the histogram, that is) can be obtained by reducing the exposure via aperture, shutter speed, or ISO. ND filters are typically used to enable slower shutter speeds or larger apertures (for creative effects) in bright lighting conditions.

Maybe there is something missing from my understanding; could you (or anyone else) please explain how this works?

You are mostly correct and also lacking creativity. If you were creative you could answer your own question.

For example when shooting into the setting sun I will use several non graduated ND filters (10 or more stops) hand held to line up the bottom edge with the horizon. And no, the camera cannot focus on the edges of the filters so it don't show.

Creativity? Cut out a small circle of an ND filter (like a welding shade) stick it to a clear piece of glass and tone down a moon. If anyone just gasped in horror at the thought of degraded image quality then I again refer to this link. Dirty lens article

I assumed you were referring to conventional use of ND filters by screwing them to the lens filter mount. There is a misconception floating around on the internet that ND filters can effectively compress luminance range (tone down highlights, ect). The use you're referring to, in my view, corresponds more closely to that of a graduated ND filter, which similarly attenuates light in only part of the image.

FWIW, I'm not sure the jab at my creativity was really necessary; I certainly didn't mean to ruffle any feathers with my post. I don't know...maybe you were just trying to be helpful, but it came across as a bit pedantic. I was merely asking for clarification, which you have now provided, so thanks.

Not really a jab at "your" creativity rather a jab at the human condition that lacks creativity. Like I said the first time around you are mostly correct. But we should think outside our self imposed boxes more often. I often fail to say humans for example but rather say "you" which I guess means I should be more creative far more often. At least proof read with an eye for that more often.

 

[Infidel]

Not really a jab at "your" creativity rather a jab at the human condition that lacks creativity. Like I said the first time around you are mostly correct. But we should think outside our self imposed boxes more often. I often fail to say humans for example but rather say "you" which I guess means I should be more creative far more often. At least proof read with an eye for that more often.

I think I understand where you're coming from, so fair enough. From that perspective, what I may lack in creativity, I like to think I compensate for with openness to novel (at least to me) and unconventional approaches.

 

[LittleItaly]

HAHA! I don't know...because I'm a girl...and I like to shop?? Figured I would figure it out! I bought the camera with out a single clue on how to use it too....

Thumbs up to you for just saying that, lol. No matter what people say here, that is the way most cameras are bought.

So, now, about these filters, it would kind of depend on what they are exactly and what camera you bought...

Let's assume you have a digital camera. Throw away the UV fiter. No use for it.

The Polarizer really depends on whether it is a circular one or not. If C it can be used with a digital camera and is great for landscape photo. If not a C and your camera is digital, throw it out.

The FLD filter can also go in the trash. That is a filter from the film days that is not used anymore.

Keep having fun shopping and shooting.

Can we see your work?

At least you didn't chew me a new a**hole for being honest.
A photog friend told me to buy filters.... and I did....they weren't expensive and maybe they are crap...I don't know...its not like they can't be returned.

 

[LittleItaly]

I'm learning a lot......

 

[LittleItaly]

HAHA! I don't know...because I'm a girl...and I like to shop?? Figured I would figure it out! I bought the camera with out a single clue on how to use it too....

Thumbs up to you for just saying that, lol. No matter what people say here, that is the way most cameras are bought.

So, now, about these filters, it would kind of depend on what they are exactly and what camera you bought...

Let's assume you have a digital camera. Throw away the UV fiter. No use for it.

The Polarizer really depends on whether it is a circular one or not. If C it can be used with a digital camera and is great for landscape photo. If not a C and your camera is digital, throw it out.

The FLD filter can also go in the trash. That is a filter from the film days that is not used anymore.

Keep having fun shopping and shooting.

Can we see your work?

BTW...I have posted a few threads with some photos I have taken.... I have only had the camera for a month so I am still very GREEN!

 

[Aerin328]

LittleItaly, I made the same mistake when I first purchased filters. I purchased generic UV filters and ended up having image quality problems here and there (esp. when shooting into bright light). Now even though it's more expensive I buy B+W brand and I'm much more satisfied. The quality is head and shoulders above generics. I agree w/ the above posters that CPL and ND filters are most useful.