Using Flash to Freeze Action - fail

[baturn]

SS-1/250, F11, ISO200
SB-800 off camera full power approx. 30degrees left 15 ft from subject, in remote.
On camera flash set to Commander.

Obviously flash needed to be closer to subject. But what needs to happen to freeze motion?

 

[SnappingShark]

What do you mean? Everything looks frozen still to me?

 

[baturn]

There is still motion blur in the wings, which is what I'm trying to stop. I can't get high enough SS without sacrificing high ISO noise.

 

[SnappingShark]

Oh damn I didn't see that little guy!! I should have looked at the larger picture!!!

Shutter speed of > 1000 usually stops that - probably 2000 for a hummingbird?

 

[astroNikon]

I'm curious about this. Was this also in full day light?
As in the flash flashes but with the slower 1/125th shutter it's not fast enough to completely stop the wings (need something higher but flash not compatible?).

You can see through the wings as if it was a partial exposure. So I'm guessing the wing was lit by the flash, but the wing then moved back and gave it the see - through look.

Is this one of those instances where you need shutter of 1/2000 to completely stop the wings in motion or less ambient light ? .. ahh . blur/ghosting of the wings is discussed here
Secrets of Digital Bird Photography

 

[tirediron]

You need to use a lot LESS flash power. At 1/1, flash duration is just a hair over 1/1000 second. If you can get it down to 1/16 or less, you'll be in the ballpark. You'll have to sacrifice depth of field by opening up several stops of aperture, but it's either that or increase ISO. SB800 flash duration chart:

1/1050 sec. at M1/1 (full) output
1/1100 sec. at M1/2 output
1/2700 sec. at M1/4 output
1/5900 sec. at M1/8 output
1/10900 sec. at M1/16 output
1/17800 sec. at M1/32 output
1/32300 sec. at M1/64 output
1/41600 sec. at M1/128 output

 

[Derrel]

View attachment 77877

SS-1/250, F11, ISO200
SB-800 off camera full power approx. 30degrees left 15 ft from subject, in remote.
On camera flash set to Commander. Obviously flash needed to be closer to subject. But what needs to happen to freeze motion?

You need a much, much slower-wing-flappin' birdie....something like a robin or black capped chicadee's wings wouldda' been frozen--but thoe birds cannot hover like bees!!!!.The problem is that full-power flash is as flash goes, slooooooooooooow. It might be 1/800. Or 1/1000. But a hummingbird's wings move very,very very fast. The little bastids have wingbeats that are insect-like in terms of rate of speed. Big slow birds have like two-, to say four-beats per second, maybe even six beats per second wing speed.

If the flash were set to an AUTO-mode, and placed much closer, you could get a faster flash pop...say one of 1/5000 to 1/20,000 second duration. The so-called fractional-power speeds of flash are VERY short....but a full-power, full capacitor dump flash is usually only around 1/1100 second with an SB 800 class flash.

And also, I think you are VERY CLOSE to a 50/50 ambient + flash ratio here:

At ISO 200, Sunny 16 Guideline says f/16 at 1/200 second is the right daylight exposure. Wellllllll.... f/11 at 1/250 is pretty close to that in this kind of late-afternoon, slanting sunlight, or early AM low sun...which is what makes that freaking AWESOME! shadow of the feeder. SO, I think part of the blur on the wings is the AMBIENT portion of the exposure.

Artistically, I LIKE a little bit of blur or ambient on hummingbird wings...this shot has a lot going for it. LOVE the shadow!!!

But if you want true STOP-MOTION wings, you need to get the flash 3,4,5 feet away at 1/4 to 1/8 power and keep the ISO level LOW, so as to avoid getting any "ghosting". I personally think the wings here show a teeny bit of ghosting from the ambient, and the flash stops "most" of the gross movement. I kind of like it, but I know what you are thinking.

 

[TheNevadanStig]

Yep, shutter speed WAY WAY too slow. I haven't gotten to shoot a hummer yet, but I would start at around 1/3000 or so. I shot a duck recently at 1/1000 and even that wasn't fast enough for the wingtips on a duck, and a ducks wings are like molasses in winter compared to a hummers.

 

[Braineack]

Yep, shutter speed WAY WAY too slow. I haven't gotten to shoot a hummer yet, but I would start at around 1/3000 or so. I shot a duck recently at 1/1000 and even that wasn't fast enough for the wingtips on a duck, and a ducks wings are like molasses in winter compared to a hummers.

he could stop the motion at 1/60sec if he set it up right. It's not about the shutter speed but the flash duration.

 

[Q4kntmare]

I agree with what everyone else stated.

Here are a couple of pictures I took (not sure on the exact specs), but I was able to get a lot closer using my 300mm lens and my flash.

 

[robbins.photo]

Ok, obviously your technique here was all wrong. You need to throw the flash at the bird, stunning it which will allow you to freeze the action beautifully. It can get a little expensive though as it tends to be kind of hard on the flash.. lol

 

[robbins.photo]

Yep, shutter speed WAY WAY too slow. I haven't gotten to shoot a hummer yet, but I would start at around 1/3000 or so. I shot a duck recently at 1/1000 and even that wasn't fast enough for the wingtips on a duck, and a ducks wings are like molasses in winter compared to a hummers.

he could stop the motion at 1/60sec if he set it up right. It's not about the shutter speed but the flash duration.

Correct me if I'm wrong but wouldn't that only work in a situation where you had very little to no ambient light? I mean even if your flash durration was extremelly fast the shutter would still stay open for 1/60th of a second and with enough ambient light that would give you motion blur on the final image.

 

[Q4kntmare]

Yep, shutter speed WAY WAY too slow. I haven't gotten to shoot a hummer yet, but I would start at around 1/3000 or so. I shot a duck recently at 1/1000 and even that wasn't fast enough for the wingtips on a duck, and a ducks wings are like molasses in winter compared to a hummers.

he could stop the motion at 1/60sec if he set it up right. It's not about the shutter speed but the flash duration.

Correct me if I'm wrong but wouldn't that only work in a situation where you had very little to no ambient light? I mean even if your flash durration was extremelly fast the shutter would still stay open for 1/60th of a second and with enough ambient light that would give you motion blur on the final image.

I agree with what you are saying. I don't think you can get a stop action at 1/60th shutter speed. You need a super fast shutter speed to get a stop motion on a hummingbird.

 

[Overread]

1/60 sec on its own is certainly not enough to stop motion
Here's a 1/50sec so a tiny bit slower
https://www.flickr.com/photos/24534478@N04/3230329204/in/set-72157613028514666/

And even just a casual motion of the leg to the side blurred (I'd embed the full image but flickr changed everything again and whilst the display is miles better than the last I can't find any of the embed photo options at present).


As said by others if your ambient light is not contributing to the photo then you can freeze motion with the flash; this is how a lot of macro photography is done. When I'm shooting at 1/200sec ISO 100 f13 the ambient light is typically not powerful enough to provide much to the exposure so the flash is giving nearly all the lighting. For something as fast as this you need a very short flash duration - if need be add a couple of more flash units so that you can combine their output.

Remember don't use high-speed sync for this - highspeed sync makes the flash send out a series of light pulses which for something like this wouldn't be ideal unless you wanted a series of positions of the wing to be shown instead of a single sharp wing position.

 

[baturn]

Thanks all. I think John nailed it .I didn't realize that the duration of the SB-800 at full power was 1/800sec. I will half the distance from flash to subject and try 1/2 and 1/4 power, hopefully this evening. As for ambient light, you can sort of see that by looking beyond the fence. And aperture will be f 6.3 wide open.