Vent: Can I play with your raw file?

[amolitor]

I think people are too sensitive and proprietary about their photographs. TPF doesn't help on this front, since there's a pretty loud subcommunity of voices that, um, strongly advocates for protecting your intellectual property.

What are you trying to protect? What harm could possibly be inflicted on you by someone who has one of your raw files? Yes yes, if you're a professional they could, through some bizarre alchemy, somehow damage your reputation. I guess. Somehow. In some fashion that they could not by downloading some JPEG you've shared and defacing that instead. Or not.

As far as I can tell, this flows out of the need portraitists, wedding photographers, and other event photographers have to control their pictures. The current approach to these businesses requires quite close control of the pictures, which strikes me and lots of other people both as a rather artificial and bizarre situation, and which appears to be in the long term not a particularly viable one either.

But here's the thing: Not everyone is a member of these professions. If you're not relying on this particular business model to feed your family, then you probably don't actually have anything to protect. Stop fussin' so much.

 

[pgriz]

I think the real reason Judi is a bit peeved, is not the RAW per se, but that the person wouldn't believe her statements about how she made her shots, and wanted the RAW to check her story.


So who volunteers to ask Mishele for her RAW to deconstruct her flower images?

 

[rexbobcat]

I think people are too sensitive and proprietary about their photographs. TPF doesn't help on this front, since there's a pretty loud subcommunity of voices that, um, strongly advocates for protecting your intellectual property.

What are you trying to protect? What harm could possibly be inflicted on you by someone who has one of your raw files? Yes yes, if you're a professional they could, through some bizarre alchemy, somehow damage your reputation. I guess. Somehow. In some fashion that they could not by downloading some JPEG you've shared and defacing that instead. Or not.

As far as I can tell, this flows out of the need portraitists, wedding photographers, and other event photographers have to control their pictures. The current approach to these businesses requires quite close control of the pictures, which strikes me and lots of other people both as a rather artificial and bizarre situation, and which appears to be in the long term not a particularly viable one either.

But here's the thing: Not everyone is a member of these professions. If you're not relying on this particular business model to feed your family, then you probably don't actually have anything to protect. Stop fussin' so much.

I find it disrespectful. It's not so much about the actual "damage" that can be done.

 

[Stevepwns]

Where they subtly hitting on you?

The way to a girl photographer's heart is through her raw?

Love works in mysterious ways.

I always thought it was the opposite. If you are right, it definitely explains a few things in my life.....

 

[mishele]

So who volunteers to ask Mishele for her RAW to deconstruct her flower images?

Wouldn't help you...hehe

 

[Stevepwns]

I think the real reason Judi is a bit peeved, is not the RAW per se, but that the person wouldn't believe her statements about how she made her shots, and wanted the RAW to check her story.

Yeah I would agree with this. Her integrity was challenged. That would piss me off too. Someone calling you out, when you dont know them... not cool.

 

[Gavjenks]

This thread confuses me.

I can't say I understand any reason whatsoever why asking for a RAW would be insulting or rude or disrespectful or dangerous in any way.

Were you naked in a mirror in the RAW before you processed it out, and you told them, and then they asked for the RAW? That would be rude. Did they looka t the jpeg and scrunch up their nose and say "Uh yeah... that's an... interesting editing job. Can I just have the RAW?" That would be rude.

Just asking for it because they like your work and want to learn more, though? Not seeing any problem there. Can somebody possibly explain further?

I think the real reason Judi is a bit peeved, is not the RAW per se, but that the person wouldn't believe her statements about how she made her shots, and wanted the RAW to check her story.

Huh?

Maybe they just wanted the full 16 bits available to try out some post processing possibilities themselves that they couldn't do on the jpeg without posterization. Who said anything about "not believing statements?"

 

[cbarnard7]

Give them the RAW...it ain't a big deal.

 

[PixelRabbit]

First , thanks for your thoughts all.

Steve, thanks for the perspective! It was one of "those" days all round and I admittedly had a hair trigger.

With a clearer mind today I will say its still uncool to ask. I didn't know the person at all, had it been someone I was familiar with perhaps it wouldn't have irked me quite as much.

I make no secret of how I do my shots, it's probably stated in most of the threads and that is how I responded, "sorry, I don't share my raw files but this is the method I'm using" they responded with "I don't believe it's not done in post" *sigh*

Oh well, glad I vented some steam with you guys yesterday so my fingers didn't get ahead of my brain and went all "arteest" on their ass! Lmao!

I'm happy to report I have regained my Good Canadian status this morning and am back to polite and happy

This thread confuses me.

I can't say I understand any reason whatsoever why asking for a RAW would be insulting or rude or disrespectful or dangerous in any way.

Were you naked in a mirror in the RAW before you processed it out, and you told them, and then they asked for the RAW? That would be rude. Did they looka t the jpeg and scrunch up their nose and say "Uh yeah... that's an... interesting editing job. Can I just have the RAW?" That would be rude.

Just asking for it because they like your work and want to learn more, though? Not seeing any problem there. Can somebody possibly explain further?

I think the real reason Judi is a bit peeved, is not the RAW per se, but that the person wouldn't believe her statements about how she made her shots, and wanted the RAW to check her story.

Huh?

Maybe they just wanted the full 16 bits available to try out some post processing possibilities themselves that they couldn't do on the jpeg without posterization. Who said anything about "not believing statements?"

Gav, this is where Paul got that information, I'm not going to argue the point, there are many differing opinions on raw files and I am of the camp that it is uncool to ask, others will stand strongly in the camp that it is fine and that's cool, it's the different opinions that makes the world interesting.

 

[vintagesnaps]

I don't think it's necessarily about someone wanting to use a Raw file as much as someone wanting to use an image, period. To me it's someone wanting to use a piece of your time and effort and ability that goes into your photography.

It could be potentially damaging if in the future you start making money with your photos and someone has taken some of your work (which could in time become more recognizable as yours) and might have altered and used it in some way - if there are photos 'out there' that look like yours but are poorly done (badly processed etc.), that could make it seem as if your photography isn't very good.

Depends I think on who's asking and how they'd want to use an image. I'd be more likely to discuss techniques etc. than to give out one of mine, unless it was a friend or fellow photographer or someone that I'd have no problem giving one of my photos.

 

[Desi]

Nothing would piss off my ex like someone asking "is that your real hair color?" (it wasn't). There is nothing wrong with asking......but you gotta know when it is OK to ask....and you have to be aware that it is a potentially sensitive subject.

 

[Gavjenks]

Gav, this is where Paul got that information, I'm not going to argue the point, there are many differing opinions on raw files and I am of the camp that it is uncool to ask, others will stand strongly in the camp that it is fine and that's cool, it's the different opinions that makes the world interesting.

You are aware that this thread is in "Photographic DISCUSSIONS," yes?



I understand now why you might be insulted in this particular case now that you drew my attention to the "I can't believe it's not done in post" comment, but you seem to be saying it would have been insulting ANYWAY, and I'm curious as to why that would be the case if they hadn't made an annoying comment like that.

 

[PixelRabbit]

Yeah, I know Gav, and I was hoping this discussion would slide peacefully into the depths of the forum and leave a faint memory if at all

These discussions usually degenerate into separate camps, none more "right" than the others because we all have our own personal truths when it comes to our opinions around photography.

I can defend my stance until the cows come home but there will always be someone to argue their own truth that discounts mine BUT I will try to explain my feelings to you even though I'm going to come off like the moody artist

My photography is personal, I have looked for this artistic outlet for 43 years, I often use it to try to express myself and have worked hard for two years now to learn how to express myself more effectively, that work goes into every file I make and keep, if I ultimately share the final image I'm sharing a piece of me.

To ask for my raw file is like asking to see me half dressed with all my flaws, big or small or just plain dullness. I had zero connection with the person, zero personal investment with them, basically a stranger saying hey let's see who you are at the raw level. The thought of it makes me very uncomfortable. Like I said, if I had a personal connection with the person I would be less uncomfortable with it and I would consider it.

It has nothing to do with trying to hide what I'm doing, I have shared that repeatedly, all one would have to do is check my exif or ask for it, stick their camera out of a moving vehicle and take some shots, yanno kinda like those who get lambasted for posting a thread expecting to be spoon fed everything.

I suppose what it comes down to for me is that many of my raw files are personal and I am uncomfortable showing them, the slow shutter shots being in the no share category at this point in my photography journey without a personal investment and trust with the person asking and even then.... Ask for the raw of a straight shot of a bee, flower, bird, etc and I would likely hand it over much more readily with very little emotional attachment.

 

[PixelRabbit]

PS

As Paul pointed out It was their response that ultimately blew my beanie and made me vent, I probably wouldn't have made the thread had I not gotten that reply basically calling me a liar.

 

[mishele]

I want to see you in the Raw...just sayin