Vote Max Bloom Critique Mod

[Alpha]

Max... I think that's what people have a love/hate thing for you.

Damn. I knew I shoulda joined. This is extortion!

 

[dpolston]

lol

 

[JC1220]

... take your own work to an organization judging team, and listen to how they do it.

Perhaps if want your photographs to fit into certain rules/categories or for commercial work.

I would suggest talking with curators, peers, teachers of photography (not just academic ones), mentors - particularly if you are concerned about your work as an artist.

An online CC can really only be taken so far...

 

[terri]

Happy New Year, all!

The moderating team has decided it's time one of us stepped into this thread.

You may have noticed a difference in the main Forum page – we have decided to close the Critique Forum for now.

Interestingly, the moderating team has been discussing the matter of the Critique Forum for several days now – well before Max started this thread, actually. Once this thread and poll were underway, we decided to stay out of it and give those interested a chance to weigh in. However, we wanted you all to know the decision to close the Critique Forum was virtually made prior to this thread. One of those strange quirks of timing!

To Max: I commend you for your continued interest in the Critique Forum. I hope you have read the numerous comments here and taken them to heart. It cannot have been easy to read some of the negative observations directed your way, yet the overall tone of this thread has remained civil and respectful. Thanks to you, and to everyone who posted here, for keeping the discussion on target. :thumbup:

There have been some suggestions made here on the improvement of the Critique Forum. Some of them we have heard before and some are new. As I've stated elsewhere, all those who wish to sincerely undertake the restructure of a completely new Critique Forum are free to do so among themselves. We all come to this forum with a wide range of experience and expectations. The seemingly simple matter of "critique" means something quite different to a beginner than it does to a seasoned pro, so it is suddenly not a "simple" thing to offer in this venue. We are always willing to review any new ideas for Critique so, should you be interested in tackling this, we just ask that you have a completely thorough program outlined before asking for a review.

With no formal Critique Forum, all members wishing for extra C&C should just specifially request it whenever they post in any of the regular Galleries.

Thanks to one and all for your continued participation and support of TPF.

Happy New Year!

 

[abraxas]

You talkin' 'bout me, dawg?

Whoever. My point is that from what I see the critique forum is a waste in it's current somewhat stagnant state.

No -one- critic will satisfy everyone therefore a panel with equal -modification- (moderator, ability to move threads) powers- would probably work best.

I've had three kinds of critiques-

1. Hateful, you suck.
2. Tender, loving, mommy.
3. Panel

#3 works best for me. Some things have to be said. Some things have to be said by others than those who said the first things. A third person is usually needed to put a bit of a reality check on the first two (which is usually a combination of type 1 and type 2 reviews.

Most critical politics should be unspoken or delt with by PM. Don't fight in front of the kids! Some bickering is acceptable, the forum should be interesting. A one critic forum would suck. An any-critic forum already does suck. No structure- no power of veto (sorry, wrong forum, -moved-).

Anyway, no sense in wasting a lot of words. Because as I mentioned, critique type #3 works best for me--as long as I haven't formed an opinion (gotten to know) the judges/panel members and they have not formed an opinion of me personally.

So while Max is teetering near unrecoverable inflexibility, and EP is covering her ears going -yadayadayada- the forum remains the same.

Randy?

[EDIT]
Posted late again.
[/EDIT]

 

[dpolston]

post

And there you have it!





NEXT! lol

 

[skieur]

Ah, how wrong you are Skieur. I'm a professional photographer (I make 100 percent of my income from photography).
If I was ripped to shreds when I first started out, I would have promptly sold my camera.
But I found the Photo Forum back in the olden days. Back then, you got something like, "While your composition and emotion is good, I feel that a crop would help, as would adding some reflective light. Here's how I do it" followed by sample photo and recommended crop and lighting setup.

Far from, "Your focus is all wrong. It's overexposed. This needs a total overhaul".
See the difference? Surely you do.

And my mentors, who I had several of, would say, "That's not bad". (As they took the time to learn what my experience level was). "Next time try to lower your flash output, and bounce it so you don't have so much direct light". (This being an actual bit of advice).

When someone is just starting out, they KNOW that they don't know what they are doing, but they want tips and pointers. Telling them that they suck helps them nada. They should be treated in the same fragile sense you would treat an infant, because in photography knowledge, that just might be exactly what they are.

When a pro posts, I say go at them with both barrels, but only if you A)have some experience doing the same type of work-so that you know the limitations and expectations of said shoot and B) aren't just repeating rhedoric that you heard somewhere, but mostly C)you still use an ounce of respect you would give to any person you met, face to face on the street.

So as a paid pro, I can tell you without reservation that your above statement is ill informed, and completely incorrect.

Your points are well made, but I think you need to realize that the nature of written posts leads to all kinds of unwarranted assumptions. Being direct, precise, and straightforward in critique does not necessarily imply rudeness or insult.

At the same time, though, enthusiasts: most amateurs and professionals alike are astounded by someone posting in professional portraiture who
demonstrates not the slightest knowledge of any aspect of portraiture or even basic technique in photography. Why should anyone be surprised that someone says in direct terms that their photo leaves a lot to be desired. Emotional types will characterize direct critique as an insult, but that does mean that it was meant as such. Some photographers simply tell it like it is.

Don't forget also that everyone here has different experience, different backgrounds, and different social skills. Some also express themselves differently in oral form than they do in writing. The intelligent person, in my opinion, looks to the content of the critique: what is actually written, and is not distracted by style or for that matter the photos of the person doing the critique.

On the other side of the coin, many find critique less relevant because in an effort to be polite, posters are being told that terrible photos are pretty cool and nice. For that reason, even a lot of serious amateurs are taking this forum less seriously and are posting less often than previously.

I think credibility trumps perceived politeness any day of the week. My mother introduced to me to a mix of amateurs and advanced pros in a competitive environment at the age of 11. My photos were torn apart for technique and composition, but I learned, and I KNEW that any praise I got was NOT false, that it was credible and well earned. By 16, I was doing pro work and knew well what a good photo was and what mistakes I had made in any photo. By 18, I was judging competitions.

skieur

 

[skieur]

Assuming everyone here is interested in becoming a professional photographer, that statement would be valid. But it isn't the case. As Chiller has pointed out, not everyone here is on the road to a photography related career. Also, being polite is quite different than "coddling." Nobody here is a baby that needs to be coddled, but for this same reason people should be treated as mature human beings that are deserving of respect. This has nothing to do with "getting a life."
.

Well, if everyone is not interested in taking better photos then why post in critique. As to being polite or "coddling" I would say that "nice" "cool" "great shot" "I like it" is coddling if it is not followed up with some comment that makes sense in photographic terms related to either technique or compostion.

As far as "nobody here is a baby that needs to be coddled", you have obviously not read the "smart assed replies" by those posters that feel that their "photographic integrity" is threatened by the slightest negative sounding critique of their masterpiece and by the way I am quoting from an email sent to me.

skieur

 

[skieur]

It is interesting to me that someone who agrees with Max's behavior mimics the behavior by telling the rest of us to "get a life" if we do not agree. Makes my point perfectly.

While I am not a pro photog, I AM a professional business coach with over 10 years of professional experience, so I am sure I can speak with some authority about the giving and receiving of feedback (I teach courses professionally on the subject). There is a difference between coddling and providing professional, polite, specific feedback. If you do not know the difference, you should not be providing feedback regardless of your technical knowledge. The risk is doing far more harm to someone than good.

I think you should read more carefully. I said get a life if you have problems with his STYLE. Do I really need to tell a "professional business coach" the difference between style and content? As a professional, I tend to find the content important and don't get hung up on style as long as it is literate but then I have 50 years experience, not over 10 as you do.

skieur

 

[Alpha]

Thanks everyone who was here and contributed some ideas. Thanks, also, to everyone who voted for me. Thank you, as well, to those who articulated themselves although they disagree with me. The rest of you can eat my wannabe shorts. We'll be closing the thread shortly.

 

[Chiller]

My last post on this thread as well.
One suggestion that may or may not work. We have a "my photos are o.k to edit, and not edit " option Is there a way of having a Critique o.k , or not o.k . Just a dumb idea that passed through my head a while back.

Im disappointed the critique section has been shut down. I know these ego heads will now be patrolling the general galleries lookin for some newbie to slam now. Shame....
Looks like I have to go and re populate my ignore button.

Still wishing for the Super Ignore Button....or the Ban button.

Bring back the old TPF, where it was a friendly place.

 

[Rick Waldroup]

Thanks everyone who was here and contributed some ideas. Thanks, also, to everyone who voted for me. Thank you, as well, to those who articulated themselves although they disagree with me. The rest of you can eat my wannabe shorts. We'll be closing the thread shortly.

So, does that mean this ego massage for you is finally over, Max?

It is rare to encounter someone so pompous and so utterly full of ****.

 

[EBphotography]

So, does that mean this ego massage for you is finally over, Max?

It is rare to encounter someone so pompous and so utterly full of ****.

I think you should let this thread die, and take up any other problems with Max through private messaging...

 

[abraxas]

This has been an absolutely entertaining way to spend an otherwise uneventful New Year's Day!

H.N. everyone!

 

[Trenton Romulox]

My last post on this thread as well.
One suggestion that may or may not work. We have a "my photos are o.k to edit, and not edit " option Is there a way of having a Critique o.k , or not o.k . Just a dumb idea that passed through my head a while back.

Im disappointed the critique section has been shut down. I know these ego heads will now be patrolling the general galleries lookin for some newbie to slam now. Shame....
Looks like I have to go and re populate my ignore button.

Still wishing for the Super Ignore Button....or the Ban button.

Bring back the old TPF, where it was a friendly place.

Hmm...'Critique OK' 'Critique NOT OK'...
I like it. It's not really a dumb idea, I don't think. In fact, it's an intriguingly good one.