Wedding pic C&C

[CSR Studio]

Nope not kidding at all. Works for me! Black and white adds class to a photo IMHO.

You actually give your clients mediocre images? Seriously?

You are taking this totally out of context. You can improve a mediocre photo by converting it to black and white. The finish and editing will improve and make the photo classy. These photos won't be mediocre(finish)to clients as these are documentations of their big day.

Why are all the photos you give to your client picture perfect? Because you seem to imply that with your question.

How am I taking this out of context?

I never said perfect. I have never seen perfect.

However, every single image I give to my clients is good and most of the time it is great but never mediocre. Converting a mediocre color image to b&w just makes it a mediocre b&w image, something I would never give a client.

 

[camz]

You actually give your clients mediocre images? Seriously?

You are taking this totally out of context. You can improve a mediocre photo by converting it to black and white. The finish and editing will improve and make the photo classy. These photos won't be mediocre(finish)to clients as these are documentations of their big day.

Why are all the photos you give to your client picture perfect? Because you seem to imply that with your question.

How am I taking this out of context?

I never said perfect. I have never seen perfect.

However, every single image I give to my clients is good and most of the time it is great but never mediocre. Converting a mediocre color image to b&w just makes it a mediocre b&w image, something I would never give a client.

Like you I am very proud of my work I'll be the first to admit that not all the pictures we give too clients are great.There are times when moments are captured where there's just no way of capturing or reshooting again. Sometimes images are technically not sound or had to be shot in a high iso therefore resulting in grain. These shots are not great. But what I focus on is documenting the clients day which is as important or even more important then being technically sound. There at times in a wedding when it is just impossible e.g. The bride is marching and being introduced with her new husband while 100 other cameras start flashing therefore messing up your exposure. Or the father tears up at church however flash insn't aloud therefore you had to boost your ISO up to 3200 and drag your shutter quite a bit in order to capture the moment. I have tons of these examples.

So now I'm curious to see your work and show me if what you speak off stating that all your shots are "good" . Is this just technically speaking? or is this a combination of good photojournalism and technicalities?

These are the photos I speak off when I say converting to black and white b/c these photos in my eyes turn into gold with class and style when converted to black and white the right way. I'm not speaking out of guess work here as I've done this before many times.

 

[CSR Studio]

You are taking this totally out of context. You can improve a mediocre photo by converting it to black and white. The finish and editing will improve and make the photo classy. These photos won't be mediocre(finish)to clients as these are documentations of their big day.

Why are all the photos you give to your client picture perfect? Because you seem to imply that with your question.

How am I taking this out of context?

I never said perfect. I have never seen perfect.

However, every single image I give to my clients is good and most of the time it is great but never mediocre. Converting a mediocre color image to b&w just makes it a mediocre b&w image, something I would never give a client.

Like you I am very proud of my work I'll be the first to admit that not all the pictures we give too clients are great.There are times when moments are captured where there's just no way of capturing or reshooting again. Sometimes images are technically not sound or had to be shot in a high iso therefore resulting in grain. These shots are not great. But what I focus on is documenting the clients day which is as important or even more important then being technically sound. There at times in a wedding when it is just impossible e.g. The bride is marching and being introduced with her new husband while 100 other cameras start flashing therefore messing up your exposure. Or the father tears up at church however flash insn't aloud therefore you had to boost your ISO up to 3200 and drag your shutter quite a bit in order to capture the moment. I have tons of these examples.

So now I'm curious to see your work and show me if what you speak off stating that all your shots are "good" . Is this just technically speaking? or is this a combination of good photojournalism and technicalities?

These are the photos I speak off when I say converting to black and white b/c these photos in my eyes turn into gold with class and style when converted to black and white the right way. I'm not speaking out of guess work here as I've done this before many times.

I have shot weddings for over 20 years and I have never missed a shot as the examples you give. Call it luck, call it lots of training, whatever, I have never and will never give a client a mediocre image. If I did miss a shot I might rethink being a wedding photographer, it is not for everyone. But I would not give a client a mediocre image because that was all I had.

 

[camz]

I have shot weddings for over 20 years and I have never missed a shot as the examples you give. Call it luck, call it lots of training, whatever, I have never and will never give a client a mediocre image.

I've spoken to the great photographers and are actually friends with some of them in the great San Francisco Bay Area like Jennifer Skog, Augie Chang, Bambi Cantrell, Ed Pingol and more and they to don't have the perfect wedding shots. Everyone I've spoken too in this industry has missed something one way or the other..

I must say you're the first I've heard say that. I'm not saying yours isn't perfect I just never heard the claim before.

 

[CSR Studio]

I have shot weddings for over 20 years and I have never missed a shot as the examples you give. Call it luck, call it lots of training, whatever, I have never and will never give a client a mediocre image.

I've spoken to the great photographers and are actually friends with some of them in the great San Francisco Bay Area like Jennifer Skog, Augie Chang, Bambi Cantrell, Ed Pingol and more and they to don't have the perfect wedding shots. Everyone I've spoken too in this industry has missed something one way or the other..

I must say you're the first I've heard say that. I'm not saying yours isn't perfect I just never heard the claim before.

You keep saying perfect. Have you ever seen a perfect anything? I sure haven't. Glad I am a photographer that hasn't missed a shot. I take pride in that. Concerns me that there are so many that have. And if you read correctly I said I have never missed a shot in the examples you gave. Is there some shot that I wanted and didn't get? sure, but the main things, absolutely.

 

[camz]

:cheers:

I have shot weddings for over 20 years and I have never missed a shot as the examples you give. Call it luck, call it lots of training, whatever, I have never and will never give a client a mediocre image.

I've spoken to the great photographers and are actually friends with some of them in the great San Francisco Bay Area like Jennifer Skog, Augie Chang, Bambi Cantrell, Ed Pingol and more and they to don't have the perfect wedding shots. Everyone I've spoken too in this industry has missed something one way or the other..

I must say you're the first I've heard say that. I'm not saying yours isn't perfect I just never heard the claim before.

You keep saying perfect. Have you ever seen a perfect anything? I sure haven't. Glad I am a photographer that hasn't missed a shot. I take pride in that. Concerns me that there are so many that have. And if you read correctly I said I have never missed a shot in the examples you gave. Is there some shot that I wanted and didn't get? sure, but the main things, absolutely.

Ok gotcha you never "missed a shot" on the things I've mentioned :cheers:

You must be the greatest photographer I've met so far.

 

[CSR Studio]

:cheers:

I've spoken to the great photographers and are actually friends with some of them in the great San Francisco Bay Area like Jennifer Skog, Augie Chang, Bambi Cantrell, Ed Pingol and more and they to don't have the perfect wedding shots. Everyone I've spoken too in this industry has missed something one way or the other..

I must say you're the first I've heard say that. I'm not saying yours isn't perfect I just never heard the claim before.

You keep saying perfect. Have you ever seen a perfect anything? I sure haven't. Glad I am a photographer that hasn't missed a shot. I take pride in that. Concerns me that there are so many that have. And if you read correctly I said I have never missed a shot in the examples you gave. Is there some shot that I wanted and didn't get? sure, but the main things, absolutely.

Ok gotcha you never "missed a shot" on the things I've mentioned :cheers:

You must be the greatest photographer I've met so far.

Could you be a little more condescending?

 

[camz]

Nope not trying too. I've given you the benefit of the doubt the whole time! I haven't seen your work and like I said that's the first time I've ever heard that claim. If you say you haven't missed a shot then you haven't.

 

[CSR Studio]

Nope not trying too. I've given you the benefit of the doubt the whole time! I haven't seen your work and like I said that's the first time I've ever heard that claim. If you say you haven't missed a shot then you haven't.

Every photographer I know says the same as me. We have all missed images but not the important ones because that is why you do what you do. If you can't get the basics you shouldn't be in the business.

And it sounds to me you are changing the subject because you were called out for your converting a mediocre image to black and white.

 

[camz]

Nope not trying too. I've given you the benefit of the doubt the whole time! I haven't seen your work and like I said that's the first time I've ever heard that claim. If you say you haven't missed a shot then you haven't.

Every photographer I know says the same as me. We have all missed images but not the important ones because that is why you do what you do. If you can't get the basics you shouldn't be in the business.

And it sounds to me you are changing the subject because you were called out for your converting a mediocre image to black and white.

How was I changing the subject. I gave examples on situations that sometimes do get mediocre shots and how I deal with it. You're the one who made the claim that you never missed a shot - you brought that up. :cheers:

 

[CSR Studio]

Nope not trying too. I've given you the benefit of the doubt the whole time! I haven't seen your work and like I said that's the first time I've ever heard that claim. If you say you haven't missed a shot then you haven't.

Every photographer I know says the same as me. We have all missed images but not the important ones because that is why you do what you do. If you can't get the basics you shouldn't be in the business.

And it sounds to me you are changing the subject because you were called out for your converting a mediocre image to black and white.

How was I changing the subject. I gave examples on situations that sometimes do get mediocre shots and how I deal with it. You're the one who made the claim that you never missed a shot - you brought that up. :cheers:

I did say that. I answered your question in post #17, when you were trying to change the direction of the discussion.

One last thing, just because you convert an image to b&w doesn't make it a better image. And hey if you want to give your clients mediocre images, go for it!

 

[camz]

 

[Nicnack]

Ok... WOW... back on topic...

me personally... I like the bride in this picture.. but not the groom... If i was the client and i had this image... i would crop out EVERYTHING and focus on the bride. you can get rid of the guy at her neck line by using photoshop and just cloning the building next to said guy.

And on another note with the two people bickering back and forth... there is NOTHING wrong with mediocre photos. Personally (and I am by no means a pro) I have noticed that the photos I feel aren't worthy are the ones that my clients like the most. Everyone has their own opinions of whats good and whats not. But what matters the most is what the person who hired you likes. Which is why I ALWAYS offer EVERY photo taken to my client, the great, the "perfect", the good, the bad, the horrible, the blurry, the edited and non edited burned to CD. You never know... they might like some of the shoots enough to use them in a scrap book. But that's just my 2cents... which really isn't worth even that much.

 

[camz]

Ok... WOW... back on topic...

me personally... I like the bride in this picture.. but not the groom... If i was the client and i had this image... i would crop out EVERYTHING and focus on the bride. you can get rid of the guy at her neck line by using photoshop and just cloning the building next to said guy.

And on another note with the two people bickering back and forth... there is NOTHING wrong with mediocre photos. Personally (and I am by no means a pro) I have noticed that the photos I feel aren't worthy are the ones that my clients like the most. Everyone has their own opinions of whats good and whats not. But what matters the most is what the person who hired you likes. Which is why I ALWAYS offer EVERY photo taken to my client, the great, the "perfect", the good, the bad, the horrible, the blurry, the edited and non edited burned to CD. You never know... they might like some of the shoots enough to use them in a scrap book. But that's just my 2cents... which really isn't worth even that much.

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

I swear you have a very valid point. What would look mediocre to us photographers could be the greatest shots to the clients just as long as you capture the moment. What we place on our blog as samples of events sometimes aren't chosen by the client which surprises me. This is the theory of giving them as many shots as possible because they are the ones who paid for em therefore they should decide.

btw Op I apologize for the bickering back and forth on your thread.

CSR - Cheers!

 

[flea77]

So your basically telling me that black and white conversions are only performed for tonality. And coloured pictures aren't?

No, I am telling you (and since you have shot almost a hundred weddings in the past three years you should know) that B&W does not show colors, only varying tones of reflected light. For example in the above shot her forehead is roughly the same tone as the trim on the house, not really appealing. This is why images that are supposed to be B&W in the finished print should be shot looking for reflectance values and not colors.

A red apple may stand out beautifully against the green leaves of a tree in color, but may completely blend in when shot in B&W.

To answer your other questions...

What if the client requested for black and white?

Then before you trip the shutter you need to look at the scene as if it was black and white and adjust accordingly.

what if the artist is just a black and white photographer?

Once again, you need to visualize the scene in B&W and make adjustments accordingly. I have had to do that for over twenty years, the rules of B&W do not change just because people use digital now instead of film. (although I use both)

So turning a really bad colored picture can not be converted to Black and White?

Sure it can! But it will still be a really bad picture. A bad shot is a bad shot, color or B&W. Conversion may add "class" in some people's eyes but it will not improve the shot.

Frankly speaking I wouldn't set rules in the art if I were you...no such thing in my book. Not stepping on your toes Allan but I've done almost a hundred weddings in the last 3 years and surely enough Black and White conversions apply across the board.

I am not setting any rules. Black and white pictures capture the reflected luminance of a scene, not the colors, that is a fact. Different colors can exhibit the same reflected luminance, that is a fact. Therefor what may look good in color, may look like garbage in B&W. The reverse is also true. So to achieve a good shot the photographer must visualize, compose, and shoot for the final output.

Allan

PS. That last sentence is really not mine, you will find something like it in any photography book.