What is the point?!

[AMOMENT]

I edit my photos in PSE9. I usually use the quick selection tool to select the part of the picture, often my subject, to work with. I then select the inverse to work with the background. Therefore, if I want to brighten my subject but dull the background, I can, without effecting the picture as a whole. I have learned and experimented with layers. It seems to me as if creating a new layer, erasing the part of the picture that you do not want to be effected (with the eraser tool of course), then applying the effect, and lastly re-exposing the entire image the way you want ultimately does the same thing. Are my missing something? Probably. Both still seem subject to flaw from the human hand. I have found more success doing it the first way then the second way. I must be missing something. As I said, I know how to use the layers and create them, to a degree, but am not finding this to be effective than my way.
I don't entirely understand layer masks. To state the obvious, it hides a layer. But when would I want to do this. I am getting lost in the progression of the photo. For example, can someone explain how I would go about converting the whole picture to B&W but having the background be much darker/higher contrast then the subject, while also sharpening their eyes. (using the layer mask concept) Is or can a layer be any selected portion of a photo either masked or highlighted and then created as a new layer?
Anyone ever use a different photo program that they find to be very good? I've heard of Picaso. Opinions I love the idea of PSE but I partially feel like I want to master photography not PSE. I want to use a good post processing program but I don't want it to be too involved.

 

[Jace]

Making something that you can take pride in is never easy.

 

[CCericola]

Hi There,

I was watching a seminar that went over layers masks and editing parts of a photo. It was through CreativeLive. It was called Dramatic Post-Production with David Nightingale.

I know how to explain what you need in PS but not in PSE so bare with me. Adjustment layers are great. The thing to remeber is Black hides, white reveals. If you have the money I suggest getting the Nightingale seminar. It really helps to see layer masks in action. Or check youtube for adjustment layers and layer mask tutorials.

 

[CCericola]

BTW CreativeLive seminars are free when they air the first time. So check out the calendar and see if there is something that could help you.

 

[KmH]

Elements 9 doesn't have near the masking capabilites that CS5 has.

Getting the photograph as close to right in the camera takes a lot less time than editing the photo post process, and since getting it right in the camera is essentially real life you don't have to worry about editing artifacts.

Your posts are a pain to read because they are just a big blocks of text. more people will read your posts if you make paragraphs.

 

[Derrel]

It sounds to me as if your pictures are really bad, because you have to go through SO MANY STEPS to get them to be the way they need to be. I'm not sure where or why this obsession with Photoshopping the living chit out of images came to be regarded as normal or expected, as opposed to extraordinary and heroic...I mean, wow, all the editing and manipulating you're talking about...that just sounds like way more than is needed. You write, "I must be missing something." I would agree; I think you are missing perspective on how photographs can be "made" by making better decisions at the camera stage. And I mean that sincerely---I do not want to offend you (believe me, I could easily do so if I wanted to...), but I do think you might want to consider some ways to make photos that require less manipulation in order to be considered "finished photographs".

 

[KenC]

I do a lot of layer masking in PS for things you can't "get right" in camera. I used to do many of these manipulations in the darkroom, as did anyone who was any good in the darkroom. Primarily I'm referring to selective lightening (dodging in darkroom) and darkening (burning). Since I can now and find it helps some images, I also occasionally do selective contrast or color adjustments (yes, these too were possible in darkroom, but a real PITA). While I agree that many people do too much manipulation in software, you guys are doing a disservice to the beginners by telling them their images should not need any adjustment if they are using their cameras properly.

 

[Village Idiot]

Example photos of before and after?

Masking is effective in the fact that you can paint the areas you want to show through and like when painting with a paint brush, you have more than the option of paint on and paint off. The pressure of your brush stroke can affect everything. You can change the opacity of your brush and the flow for edge hardness and use it to blend in effects and make transitions between edited areas smoother rather than have one layer with an absolute edge where a transition is noticable.

I could only recommend taking on a challenge to edit something that seems complicated to you and use the internet to find ways of fixing the problem so that you can learn other PS skills that will translate to having more options and editing better in the future.

Like these two words that will totally blow your mind: Pen Tool

Your insta-selection has nothing on that.

Of course, I'm using CS5, so I'm hoping that feature is in Elements.

One of the biggest helps for me in learning PS was editing out car rigs. After two weeks of editing a few photos I learned more than in the 5 or 6 years of using it for my portrait work. I had to find out how to do stuff like cutting out portions of the photo and reshaping them then dodging and burning to match the exposure and inserting the cut portion into another section to corver the rig or reflections that could be fixed with a simple cloning tool.





Oh, and get it right in the camera first.

 

[Village Idiot]

I do a lot of layer masking in PS for things you can't "get right" in camera. I used to do many of these manipulations in the darkroom, as did anyone who was any good in the darkroom. Primarily I'm referring to selective lightening (dodging in darkroom) and darkening (burning). Since I can now and find it helps some images, I also occasionally do selective contrast or color adjustments (yes, these too were possible in darkroom, but a real PITA). While I agree that many people do too much manipulation in software, you guys are doing a disservice to the beginners by telling them their images should not need any adjustment if they are using their cameras properly.

I think people are doing a disservice to beginners if they're not encouraging them to try and get it right in the camera first.

If someone is telling me that they're darkening backgrounds and lighting subjects, it really sounds like improper exposure on the subject that's possibly due to evaluative metering or some other feature that the user is relying on vs. knowledge of how to do it when the camera tells us it's right and it's totally wrong for what we want.

 

[shootermcgavin]

The big difference between PSE and PSCS5 is just what you described. Elements actually does have some things that are kind of easier built in functions, but it is really difficult to do more than one of a certain function where in CS5 it's easier to stack layers. I totally know where you are coming from after recently switching I thought Elements 9 was easier but when you learn it I think it is a better tool and definetely more powerful. I know about picasa but not picasso, not sure how good that is. One thing I do more in CS5 than in elements is adding a soft light layer which in a lot of photos I like what it does to the image, I think that works in E9 also.

 

[Derrel]

I do a lot of layer masking in PS for things you can't "get right" in camera. I used to do many of these manipulations in the darkroom, as did anyone who was any good in the darkroom. Primarily I'm referring to selective lightening (dodging in darkroom) and darkening (burning). Since I can now and find it helps some images, I also occasionally do selective contrast or color adjustments (yes, these too were possible in darkroom, but a real PITA). While I agree that many people do too much manipulation in software, you guys are doing a disservice to the beginners by telling them their images should not need any adjustment if they are using their cameras properly.

I do not think anybody said that images "should not need any adjustment if they are using their cameras properly." That is not what I suggested. You might want to re-read what I wrote before using my statement, and twisting it around with an ill-formed gross misinterpretation KenC...

 

[KenC]

I do a lot of layer masking in PS for things you can't "get right" in camera. I used to do many of these manipulations in the darkroom, as did anyone who was any good in the darkroom. Primarily I'm referring to selective lightening (dodging in darkroom) and darkening (burning). Since I can now and find it helps some images, I also occasionally do selective contrast or color adjustments (yes, these too were possible in darkroom, but a real PITA). While I agree that many people do too much manipulation in software, you guys are doing a disservice to the beginners by telling them their images should not need any adjustment if they are using their cameras properly.

I do not think anybody said that images "should not need any adjustment if they are using their cameras properly." That is not what I suggested. You might want to re-read what I wrote before using my statement, and twisting it around with an ill-formed gross misinterpretation KenC...

Temper, temper ...

I didn't intend to twist your words and I agree that you didn't rule out all manipulation, but it wasn't clear from your post exactly how much you considered to be too much. It seems as though we essentially agree on this.

 

[MTVision]

Layers are alot easier to use in elements if you also play around with the blending modes. If you have an underexposed image or part of it is too dark use screen blending mode then invert mask. Use a low opacity soft brush to lighten areas up. For overexposed areas use multiply blending mode and do the same as above. It's super easy and quick.

 

[KmH]

Learn how to do dodge and burn.

 

[Derrel]

I do a lot of layer masking in PS for things you can't "get right" in camera. I used to do many of these manipulations in the darkroom, as did anyone who was any good in the darkroom. Primarily I'm referring to selective lightening (dodging in darkroom) and darkening (burning). Since I can now and find it helps some images, I also occasionally do selective contrast or color adjustments (yes, these too were possible in darkroom, but a real PITA). While I agree that many people do too much manipulation in software, you guys are doing a disservice to the beginners by telling them their images should not need any adjustment if they are using their cameras properly.

I do not think anybody said that images "should not need any adjustment if they are using their cameras properly." That is not what I suggested. You might want to re-read what I wrote before using my statement, and twisting it around with an ill-formed gross misinterpretation KenC...

Temper, temper ...

I didn't intend to twist your words and I agree that you didn't rule out all manipulation, but it wasn't clear from your post exactly how much you considered to be too much. It seems as though we essentially agree on this.

Yeah, whatever...so, even though as you state, "it wasn't clear from your post exactly", you took comments from me, and KmH, and misinterpreted them, broadened them, and then continued from there...yeah temper, temper my ass...I get pretty tired of that happening here. People mis-reading my words, or Keith's words, and then going off...yeah...that raises my ire...it's a behavior I'm not fond of.

My advice to this particular beginner was, and I will quote it was, "...you might want to consider some ways to make photos that require less manipulation in order to be considered finished photographs".

There's no disservice in that. None. Whatsoever. It is in fact, phrased as a very gentle urging to "consider" some ways that require "less manipulation"--which allows for some manipultion--in order to create what she considers to be finished photographs".