What new lights to buy for product photography? Need recommendations.

[Mystery]

I have recently started to do my own product photography. I am shooting on a Nikon D40, but am looking to upgrade the camera soon. First, though, I need to find some lights. I purchased this set from Amazon (Amazon.com: CowboyStudio 4500 Watt Photo Studio Lighting Softbox Video Light Kit Boom Set and Carry Case - VL-9026S-2B-85W: Camera & Photo). I have not been impressed with the quality at all. The first set came with a bad bulb so I had to replace the entire kit. The second kit came with a defective set screw, so the boom light doesn't clamp to the stand. Amazon shipped me a whole new third kit last week. I was pleased to find that the defective part in the second kit was replaced with a new design. However, the new set came with a dead light socket in one of the lights. So, I am on my third set and I have to send this one back too. I am going to get a refund on this set and I need to find something better to replace it with.

I originally thought continuos lighting would be better for me since I am a total beginner. I thought it was less to try and figure out than starting with strobes. I learned quickly that continuous lights get very hot, even fluorescents. I hate these lights with a passion now because my little studio turns into a sauna. So, I want to get strobes now. I am currently using these 3 soft boxes, one on each front angle and one directly above. I am shooting white background with a backlit white lexan shooting table shown here (http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/...oduct-photography-problems-2.html#post2878272) I assume I will need 3 strobes, but maybe I only need 2? I don't have a lot of budget to work with but I don't want to end up with crap like this cowboystudio stuff again. I would like to spend around $400-$500. I am happy to buy used equipment, but I don't have a lot of patience because I need to send these back and buy something pretty quickly. Any recommendations would be very helpful.

Oh, I am also shooting some portraits too, people and dogs. I would like something that will work for the portraits too, so I need something versatile.

Thanks so much for any help.

 

[tirediron]

If you're buying used, look for a set of Elinchrom's D-Lites; you can sometimes find a 2x500 w/s on Craig's list for that price. If you're buying new, check out Adorama's Flashpoint series; probably the best deal in entry-level lighting on the market.

 

[Mystery]

Thanks for the recommendations. I did a quick search and I found this used for $530.

2 - D-Light 4 400ws MonoLight Heads
2 - Elinchrom Umbrellas with Case
2 - Power Supply Cables
2 - Manfrotto 367B Stands

Not sure if it's a good deal because I am not familiar with them yet and I'm not even sure what they cost new. Nor am I sure if that is the particular model I would need. I am a real noobie with this stuff, so forgive the beginner questions but I don't really know where to start!

1) If I were to go with something like these, since my Nikon doesn't have commander mode, would I just use a sync cord to one of the lights and put the other in slave mode? I would love to have a Nikon Speedlight Commander, but as I said, I am going to be in the market for a new camera soon. So, I will just hold out like that if it will work until I get a camera with commander mode.

I am using 4 lights now. One soft box on each side and one on a boom directly above. Then, the backlit transparent shooting table surface. I am assuming that my "daylight" (not real photo balanced lights) bulbs under the table will not match the white balance of the strobes. However, the surface puts off a real nice white.

2) Do you think I will have white balance problems with the shooting table and the strobes?

3) Will just two strobes be enough to light the product that I am now lighting with 3 off camera lights? I worry that without the light from above, I will have shadow issues. Should I be looking to get 3 lights? Or should I keep a continuous boom light that matches the strobes?

Let me know your thoughts, I really appreciate the help.

 

[tirediron]

In my area that would be a good deal for that kit, but prices do vary by region. IIRC, it retails for around $750 - 850 new. You will see a world of difference between these and your Cowboy Studio gear, and remember, these are Elinchroms cheapest entry model! You can trigger these by PC sync cord, but a much better option would inexpensive radio triggers such as the Cactus V5.

You will have some odd light if you mix it, but buy a $10 grey card, shoot that first and then set your WB in post. It should work out fine.

This kit is definitely geared more toward portraiture than product, and it depends on (1) what sort of product, and (2) what sort of lighting you want (dramatic, flat, shadowless...) More lights are always better, but there is a limit to what the budget can support. I would suggest that you should be able to light MOST things with this, and don't forget you can use your pop-up flash for front fill too!

 

[Mystery]

The link in my first post shows shows an example of the products I am shooting. The photos must be white background (255,255,255) with no shadow. I actually like shadows, but it's much easier to go no shadow for me and with the backlit shooting table, it pretty much eliminates shadows anyway. I will be shooting leather goods ranging from tiny dog collars that are about 3" in diameter to slightly larger products like handbags. My shooting table is 4' x 4'. The largest items I have take up most of the shooting surface. So, I need to be able to evenly light about a 36" x 36" surface. Although I built that table with a 4' tall sweep for taller items, the tallest item I will need to shoot any time soon would be something like a pair of boots. For the portrait work, it will be product shots with models. So, we are shooting things like a woman carrying a handbag and a dog wearing a collar. I have a seamless paper backdrop for those shots and the ones I have done already turned out very well with the cowboy lights. Although, I didn't have enough lights to light the paper with a separate light, so I did have some trouble working around shadows from the models. I would like to have another light or two just for lighting the backdrop. Maybe a couple inexpensive strobes would be ok for that until I can buy something better?

I checked out the cactus trigger, I'll look into it some more. Seems like it should work well.

 

[Mystery]

Little more than I wanted to spend, but?????
http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/buy-sell/313624-white-lightning-x800-x1600.html

 

[Mystery]

One more option I'm wondering about...... What about just getting a couple speedlights and maybe using them with umbrellas? They are small, portable and versatile. Would they be strong enough to use for small outdoor portraits too? Is that more bang for my buck?

 

[tirediron]

The White Lightenings are a LOT of power. I would guess that you might almost find them too much light. Speedlights are an option; one that slipped my mind actually. They do indeed have enough "oomph" for outdoor work. This image was shot with a single SB800 firing into a 30" Lastolite ezybox. Yongnuo units are generally well regarded ('though I have no first-hand experience), and are very inexpensive.

 

[Mystery]

I've been looking at speedlights all morning. Seems like a really versatile option. My camera doesn't have Commander Mode, though. So, I would have to get a SU-4, SB800 or something like a pocket wizard if I want to control the off camera flashes? Or I can stil use the Cactus you mentioned earlier, right? I would love to get all Nikon equipment, but I don't know if my budget can stretch out enough for 3 Nikon lights. I'm looking around at other options like used equipment and aftermarket brands. I just don't want to end up with junk again!

 

[Mach0]

I've been looking at speedlights all morning. Seems like a really versatile option. My camera doesn't have Commander Mode, though. So, I would have to get a SU-4, SB800 or something like a pocket wizard if I want to control the off camera flashes? Or I can stil use the Cactus you mentioned earlier, right? I would love to get all Nikon equipment, but I don't know if my budget can stretch out enough for 3 Nikon lights. I'm looking around at other options like used equipment and aftermarket brands. I just don't want to end up with junk again!

Older sb's like sb25,26,28's.

 

[tirediron]

Don't worry about Commander mode; that's really only for TTL, and requires line of sight to work; it's handy but radio triggers (the Cactus will do fine) are much better. The only downside is that you will have to adjust setting for each light on the light itself, and not remotely from the camera, but I've never found that to be too difficult. As Mach mentioned, the SB28s are a good unit, and often come up on Craig's list for a reasonable price.

 

[Mystery]

Don't worry about Commander mode; that's really only for TTL, and requires line of sight to work; it's handy but radio triggers (the Cactus will do fine) are much better. The only downside is that you will have to adjust setting for each light on the light itself, and not remotely from the camera, but I've never found that to be too difficult. As Mach mentioned, the SB28s are a good unit, and often come up on Craig's list for a reasonable price.

Ok, I've been literally reading up on this stuff non-stop since posting this yesterday. Well, I've been shopping more that anything, so I did a lot of reading, but didn't really learn much. So, this afternoon, I started trying to learn a little more so I had a better understanding of what I need. Since my photography is pretty much all studio at a fixed distance with still products and still live models (except when I shoot dogs that are hard to keep still!!!), I figure your recommendation to use manual flashes is just fine for me. I am planning to upgrade my camera soon to something like a D90 or D7000 that has live view capabilities, and I was excited to also have creative lighting system, but I would need the more expensive flashes to even use that feature. However, for my work, CLS is really more of a want than a need. So, it sounds like I could get by really well with the SB28's. I assume I want three lights for tabletop products so i can set them up how I do now: one angled on each side and one from above. For model shots, I tend to have a hard time overexposing the white background to get the high key look I want. I don't know if an SB28 has wide enough of an angle to light up my background to high key, but it would be great if I could have 1 flash to light the entire background for half to full body shots so I can use the other 2 on the models. Am I expecting to much from these units? Maybe I need 2 lights for background that large?

Then, my next question.... If I have all three lights off camera and run the cactus v5 trigger, would I just control one flash and use the others in optical slave mode?

Also, are the SB28's strong enough of a flash to use in a softbox or umbrella about 6-10 feet from a portrait model?

If I'm on the right track, I'll start looking for some SB28's and some stands with umbrellas or softboxes. Not sure what the options are for boom stands, but I'm sure there's plenty of options. All in all, I am going to spend more than I wanted to, but less than I thought I might have to. I can always buy an SB700 or SB900 later and just use these lights as off camera lights, I suppose.

 

[blabita]

Another option for off camera flash with high power would be the older Metz line used in manual (45cl, ct, even 60 ct1) these flashes put out a great deal of light. Stay away from the Nikon sb900 its very expensive and overheats. I currently use a Metz 70 mz5 and a 58 AF-1. They both will TTL to most nikons and put out more cleaner light than the Nikon speed lights. You would need to pocket wizard or pc cord to your camera. Using as many lights as you are the radios are the way to go. Best of luck