White spots like rain on negatives

Leal

TPF Noob!
Joined
Sep 13, 2020
Messages
11
Reaction score
5
Hello everyone,

I'm new to film photography and i'm trying to develop my film at home but without good results.
Every time i develop a roll of film i end up with white spots all over the photo.

I've attached an example of my last developement.

Developed a roll of 120 Ilford Delta 100 on a Paterson tank with the turning stick, Ilford DD-X 1:4, 20 ºC 12min | Ilford Stop Bath 1min | Ilford Rapid Fixer 7min | tap water for the final rinse and Kodak photo-flo at the end.

Can anyone give me some ideas on what this can be?

Thanks in advance.
 

Attachments

  • Image _test.png
    Image _test.png
    1.3 MB · Views: 493

Peter Fowler

TPF Noob!
Joined
Sep 7, 2020
Messages
3
Reaction score
0
Can others edit my Photos
Photos OK to edit
First question concerns the age and mixture ratio of your fixer and the next might be your water supply . Peter
Was going to add that your fixing time is quite a bit longer than Ilford suggests .
 
Last edited:

Derrel

Mr. Rain Cloud
Joined
Jul 23, 2009
Messages
48,227
Reaction score
18,923
Location
USA
Website
www.pbase.com
Can others edit my Photos
Photos OK to edit
It is difficult to tell from only one photo, but my suspicion is that your Photo Flo is way too strong and that what you are seeing is actually evidence of evaporated soap.

You need to make sure that your Photo Flo is quite diluted. Verrrrrrry diluted.
 

Pixeldawg1

TPF Supporters
Supporting Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2020
Messages
364
Reaction score
266
Location
Suzhou, China
Website
www.facebook.com
Can others edit my Photos
Photos NOT OK to edit
Firstly, you need to ensure you don't have any contamination. Wash the tank and reels extensively (I hate Patterson reels. The stainless ones work much better...) then, throw away your mixed chemistry and clean the bottles holding the chemicals very well. I am guessing it is an issue with the fixer. I say this because the spots are white, which means they are dark on your negatives. If the fixer isn't getting to the surface of the film, you will get these dark spots. PhotoFlo would not normally do this, but as Derrel mentioned, highly diluted- typically 1:200 is the norm for PhotoFlo. I used to put a cap of PhotoFlo per gallon of water- putting the PhotoFlo into the water and not the other way around. When you develop your film, rap the Patterson tank a few times onto the counter (gently) to ensure no bubbles. Do this with EACH chemical- developer, stop bath and fixer to ensure that there are no bubbles forming and that the proper chemistry is reaching your film. Not sure what the stirring thing that you are referring to is, but I would not recommend you use it. I would pour in the chemistry, rap the tank on your counter 3-4 times gently, then invert and turn with one full cycle (returning back to start position) per second for a total of 5 seconds every 30 seconds. Looking at this again, I still think fixer contamination and would guess it comes from the stirry thingy you mentioned. Let us know how this turns out, OK? And, as a little advice from someone who developed film for 40 years... invest in stainless steel tanks. They eliminate much of these issues and give you better flow of your chemistry throughout the tank itself, plus they clean MUCH better in your wash.

Cordially,

Mark
 
OP
L

Leal

TPF Noob!
Joined
Sep 13, 2020
Messages
11
Reaction score
5
First question concerns the age and mixture ratio of your fixer and the next might be your water supply . Peter
Was going to add that your fixing time is quite a bit longer than Ilford suggests .

Hi Peter,
All the chemicals are fresh, for the fixer i've used 1:4 dilution (400ml water : 100ml fixer).
I've mixed the quimicals with distilled water but for the final rinse i've used tap water.

It is difficult to tell from only one photo, but my suspicion is that your Photo Flo is way too strong and that what you are seeing is actually evidence of evaporated soap.

You need to make sure that your Photo Flo is quite diluted. Verrrrrrry diluted.

Hi Derrel,
All the photos from this roll have more or less the same issue, some with more and others with less spots.
I've used 2ml in 500ml of water (tap water since i've runned out of distilled water). Is this too much?

Thank you both for the replys.
 
OP
L

Leal

TPF Noob!
Joined
Sep 13, 2020
Messages
11
Reaction score
5
Firstly, you need to ensure you don't have any contamination. Wash the tank and reels extensively (I hate Patterson reels. The stainless ones work much better...) then, throw away your mixed chemistry and clean the bottles holding the chemicals very well. I am guessing it is an issue with the fixer. I say this because the spots are white, which means they are dark on your negatives. If the fixer isn't getting to the surface of the film, you will get these dark spots. PhotoFlo would not normally do this, but as Derrel mentioned, highly diluted- typically 1:200 is the norm for PhotoFlo. I used to put a cap of PhotoFlo per gallon of water- putting the PhotoFlo into the water and not the other way around. When you develop your film, rap the Patterson tank a few times onto the counter (gently) to ensure no bubbles. Do this with EACH chemical- developer, stop bath and fixer to ensure that there are no bubbles forming and that the proper chemistry is reaching your film. Not sure what the stirring thing that you are referring to is, but I would not recommend you use it. I would pour in the chemistry, rap the tank on your counter 3-4 times gently, then invert and turn with one full cycle (returning back to start position) per second for a total of 5 seconds every 30 seconds. Looking at this again, I still think fixer contamination and would guess it comes from the stirry thingy you mentioned. Let us know how this turns out, OK? And, as a little advice from someone who developed film for 40 years... invest in stainless steel tanks. They eliminate much of these issues and give you better flow of your chemistry throughout the tank itself, plus they clean MUCH better in your wash.

Cordially,

Mark

Hi Mark, thanks for the advices.
All the chemicals are fresh, i've do not reused for this development.
You mentioned "contamination", and this make me thing that i use a syringe to mix the small quantitys of chemicals, i wash it before i use in other chemical but maybe this isn't the best method, and now i can have all my chemicals contaminated.

The "stirring thing" is the Paterson stick to rotate the reel inside the tank.
Yes the spots on the negatives are black and i can see them on "naked eye".

Thank you for your time.
 

Silversnapper

TPF Noob!
Joined
Jan 29, 2020
Messages
26
Reaction score
34
Location
England
Can others edit my Photos
Photos NOT OK to edit
Myself and two other phtotographers have recently had problems with mottling on 120 films. Your example looks very similar although it does seem to have a more longitudinal linear pattern to it.

I contacted Ilford and it was traced to a particular batch number dated 2017 - still within its expiry date. Ilford acknowledged the problem and we received replacement films.

In the interim it might be worth contacting Ilford and showing them your example together with as much detail as possible about the film you used - expiry date, how stored if possible and also the edge code number you will find printed along the edge of the film.

You can contact Ilford by registering on their website or direct at: technical@harmantechnology.com giving them the information above.
 
OP
L

Leal

TPF Noob!
Joined
Sep 13, 2020
Messages
11
Reaction score
5
Myself and two other phtotographers have recently had problems with mottling on 120 films. Your example looks very similar although it does seem to have a more longitudinal linear pattern to it.

I contacted Ilford and it was traced to a particular batch number dated 2017 - still within its expiry date. Ilford acknowledged the problem and we received replacement films.

In the interim it might be worth contacting Ilford and showing them your example together with as much detail as possible about the film you used - expiry date, how stored if possible and also the edge code number you will find printed along the edge of the film.

You can contact Ilford by registering on their website or direct at: technical@harmantechnology.com giving them the information above.

Hi Silversnapper,
Thank you for the info.

I don't have the box of this roll anymore, do you think that the information on negatives is suficient for Ilford track the roll?
I have another one that i've bought on the same day and on the same store, i will do some test shots (with some modifications on the development) and i can see if the result is the same.
 

Silversnapper

TPF Noob!
Joined
Jan 29, 2020
Messages
26
Reaction score
34
Location
England
Can others edit my Photos
Photos NOT OK to edit
The second film might not be from the same batch and could lead to confusion. Ilford can tell from the edge code when the batch was made and will know if there have been any other reported incidents of the same problem. We had 100% satisfaction from them and were very easy to communicate with.

As an aside, I have used Paterson tanks for almost sixty years and my current tanks/spirals are forty years old so with care and good cleaning you shouldn't have any issues however, rotary development with the twizzle stick is not recommended by Ilford and I have never known any photographer that uses it. Here are a few of my spirals, stained from colour chemicals but still going strong after a few decades.
Reels.jpg
 

Silversnapper

TPF Noob!
Joined
Jan 29, 2020
Messages
26
Reaction score
34
Location
England
Can others edit my Photos
Photos NOT OK to edit
To be fair these spirals were only used for colour and hardly get used these days as I don't use colour now and as I only process perhaps one or perhaps two films a month I just use a couple of spirals that I kept for B&W.

With regards to cleaning, , I wash everything in warm soapy water and then gently brush round the spirals with a a natural bristle nail brush (very hard to find now) rather than the modern nylon type ones as I find them quite harsh on the relatively soft plastic tank parts. A word of caution: never use any type of cloth to dry the tank components because I find even the finest cotton or cotton blend material will shed very small fibres and leave them on the components ready to be washed into the chemicals next time you fill the tank, even monofilament cloths seem to leave something behind. I then leave mine to air dry on a stainless steel rack in a cool room and alway, always blow them with a rocket blower or similar before use. I realise that some will heartily disagree with me and say it's a bit OTT but hey, it works for me.
 
OP
L

Leal

TPF Noob!
Joined
Sep 13, 2020
Messages
11
Reaction score
5
@Silversnapper

Thank you for all the tips and advices.
I will perform some tests and then i put here the result.
 
OP
L

Leal

TPF Noob!
Joined
Sep 13, 2020
Messages
11
Reaction score
5
Update

Yesterday I've contacted Ilford and today they answered,

From looking at your images and the info you’ve provided, I can confirm your findings do unfortunately link to a statement we put on our website 02/03/20 – I’ve attached a link to it below in case its helpful.
There isn’t anything I can see to indicate your processing is triggering the issue. But given the issue has unfortunately affected 2 different products / batches, I can only best guess that one of the triggers is the films have perhaps been subjected to heat. Not in your ownership of them – but perhaps whilst in transit or at the distributor / dealer / shop.

Your film serial numbers correlated to the below batches :-
Delta 100 - 4507 - 59DTA1C02-2 (manufactured Nov 17).
HP5 plus – 4524 – 67BHN1C01-2. (manufactured July 18).

They will send me new rolls and I will test my process to clear all doubts.

Thanks to everyone.
Later I will make an update.
 

compur

Been spending a lot of time on here!
Joined
Mar 6, 2008
Messages
3,931
Reaction score
878
Location
L.A.
OMG! A real person at a company actually responded in an intelligent and responsible way to a customer's issue with one of its products.

I think I'm going to faint ...
 
Last edited:

Silversnapper

TPF Noob!
Joined
Jan 29, 2020
Messages
26
Reaction score
34
Location
England
Can others edit my Photos
Photos NOT OK to edit
OMG! A real person at a company actually responded in an intelligent and responsible way to a customer's issue with one of its products.

I think I'm going to faint ...

That's great news, you have confirmed what I posted earlier, Ilford have shown excellent customer service.
 

Most reactions

New Topics

Top