Who makes a living out of photography

[The_Traveler]

When I read what you said about 20.- 8x10s ("you aren't making a dime off of that"), I cringed. I sell my 8x10s for 14.- and got criticized for being too expensive. I pondered lowering the prices again but ended up not doing it.

A surgeon doesn't charge for the scalpel blade.
Selling per item makes a commodity out of what is a work of art. The reason that expensive wedding or portrait photogs get the big bucks is that what they do is wonderful and the print is only a manifestation of that achievement.

When I am able to take wonderful portraits, I will be doing it with the same camera and lenses and my printing costs will be the same. What will be different and what will cost will be my talent (if I eventually can uncover it.)

I have a friend in the professions who was extremely good at what he did and was much too busy - so he raised his fees - and became even busier.
People recognize, want and will pay for quality - because then they will have something that they will treasure.

 

[JodieO]

I have a friend in the professions who was extremely good at what he did and was much too busy - so he raised his fees - and became even busier.
.

Yes, perception is HUGE. Every time I get absolutely too busy, I raise my prices. When I see someone who has a spouse who can support them, and they only do the photography "on the side" and it isn't a total necessity to bring money in, I tell them to raise their prices to a ridiculous amount (or at LEAST as high as the higher end photogs) and sit back and watch. Business will be slow at first but all of a sudden, you will find those people who value your work, and you will be too busy for your own good! lolol!

If you have someone else who can support your family, that is the BEST SITUATION to play with your prices and to really see how high you can get them and demand a high end feel, etc. to your whole business.... because it is one of those "what do you have to lose" type of situations.

As soon as I am done paying off a bunch of debt we have and invest in a studio (I'm renting now, I want to buy a building), and get a bunch of stuff squared away, and DH starts his own business - which although he makes six figures too, he will be able to double or triple his income within the first year or two when he starts his business (let me just say, the situation he is in to do so is too good to pass up), I will cut back on my business by seriously upping my prices....I'd personally like to get $10,000 sales on portraits on a regular basis - and be extremely exclusive. Four sales per month would be nice.

I don't thik it is out of the question, but I am not goign to shoot myself in the foot either - just need to get my "ducks in a row" before I attempt that structure... lololol!

 

[NJMAN]

Yes, perception is HUGE. Every time I get absolutely too busy, I raise my prices. When I see someone who has a spouse who can support them, and they only do the photography "on the side" and it isn't a total necessity to bring money in, I tell them to raise their prices to a ridiculous amount (or at LEAST as high as the higher end photogs) and sit back and watch. Business will be slow at first but all of a sudden, you will find those people who value your work, and you will be too busy for your own good! lolol!

If you have someone else who can support your family, that is the BEST SITUATION to play with your prices and to really see how high you can get them and demand a high end feel, etc. to your whole business.... because it is one of those "what do you have to lose" type of situations.

As soon as I am done paying off a bunch of debt we have and invest in a studio (I'm renting now, I want to buy a building), and get a bunch of stuff squared away, and DH starts his own business - which although he makes six figures too, he will be able to double or triple his income within the first year or two when he starts his business (let me just say, the situation he is in to do so is too good to pass up), I will cut back on my business by seriously upping my prices....I'd personally like to get $10,000 sales on portraits on a regular basis - and be extremely exclusive. Four sales per month would be nice.

I don't thik it is out of the question, but I am not goign to shoot myself in the foot either - just need to get my "ducks in a row" before I attempt that structure... lololol!

You seriously scare the hell out of me with your level of confidence and business sense. But on the other hand, you seriously inspire me as well.

 

[JodieO]

You seriously scare the hell out of me with your level of confidence and business sense. But on the other hand, you seriously inspire me as well.

The confidence is only because I have watched it done.

I briefly worked with a photog years ago that usually only sees her clients once. She is very exclusive and if you are going to do business with her, you know you are going to spend big... and I swear, she has to have a financing company in with her somewhere because I have actually gotten some of her clients before, and they say they have spent anywhere from $7,000-$18,000 on her work. :shock:

 

[maytay20]

I'm still in high school myself, and am absolutely in love with photography, but I realistically know that I won't be able to live off of my hobby for a long time, if ever. That's why I plan on becoming an English teacher, because I love english and I love teaching people. And, bonus, I get summers off if I become a teacher, and if I teach in high school like I want to, I can always be like, 'Hey, students, senior portraits, I can do them if you want.' And hey, if I could build up a business whilst I'm a teacher, then great. If not, I still have teaching, and I still have photography. Win-win really.

I am not saying anything bad about teachers they are great people. But don't teach for the money. My BIL and SIL are both teachers and don't make enough to live on. I do my photography, my husband DJs and we are servers on the side and we do pretty good for our family.

 

[Lacey Anne]

Jodie, you are inspiring. I have read every word you have written on this thread and then visited your site as well. Damn. I'm going to use you as an example as I set up my business. Thank you.

 

[jcolman]

I'll kick this horse a bit.

I've made a living behind the camera for over 35 years. I went to school, got a degree in photography, then transfered to another school and studied cinematography.

My first job was making training films/still photography in a corporate setting. (see my av for what I looked like all those years ago) My second job was working as a photographer for a newspaper. My third job was shooting tv news. My fourth job was shooting tv entertainment shows. My fifth job was producing tv shows, documentaries. My sixth and seventh jobs has been as a video producer/director. During this time I also produced several freelance films/videos.

Today, I'm still making videos for a living but I'm going back to my first love....still photography. I'm just starting my own part time freelance business and loving every minute of it.

 

[rubbertree]

I :heart: Jodie.
I have such a strong business sense about you, it's very admirable. I hate when artists of any genre undercut themselves and other artists.
I do not make a living from photography, I do freelance and commissioned work though I have worked as a portrait photographer and photojournalist in the past (as my full time job).
I currently own my own business in a completely different industry, art nonetheless. And we are constantly seeing other artists making the same type of product and charging 1/4 what we charge. It sucks because it is hard work, so much R&D goes into it, materials are very expensive, I have my own studio in my house devoted to it, it's time consuming and it's not cheap! So I charge as I should for the product. I would consider myself on the higher end of the scale in that industry and I am so overwhelmed with orders for product it is extremely difficult to keep up.
It has nothing to do with suckering money out of rich people, but I prefer to have clients who appreciate and pay for my hard work. If other people would rather pay 1/4 of my prices for someone else's product, go for it. You get what you pay for.
When you make a business out of it, you aren't just doing it for fun, yes, you are doing it for money as well.

 

[Parago]

If other people would rather pay 1/4 of my prices for someone else's product, go for it. You get what you pay for.
When you make a business out of it, you aren't just doing it for fun, yes, you are doing it for money as well.

I'm sorry but I respectfully disagree here. What you're trying to say is that the most expensive photographers deliver the best possible quality and that's simply not true. You have to consider many different aspects when creating your price list - simply slapping 4-digit prices on your website, even if you're indeed THAT talented, doesn't turn you into an 'upscale' photographer. Life would be pretty damn sweet if it was that easy.

What it comes down to is a combination of business skills, artistic skills, and timing.

Jodie pretty much seems to have that figured out quite amazingly. Others don't. We're all human, after all. But please don't stand there and tell me all expensive photographers are 'upscale' and 'good', while others who conform to their individual (and oftentimes less than perfect) circumstances and chose to offer their services at more affordable prices are crap or inevitably deliver lesser quality.

 

[rubbertree]

Parago,
No where in my post did I say that. Reread what I wrote!
Nowhere did I say that you slap 4 digits on your price does it make you upscale.

 

[Parago]

Parago,
No where in my post did I say that. Reread what I wrote!
Nowhere did I say that you slap 4 digits on your price does it make you upscale.

You said 'you get what you pay for' - how else is that to be understood?

 

[rubbertree]

I currently own my own business in a completely different industry, art nonetheless. And we are constantly seeing other artists making the same type of product and charging 1/4 what we charge. It sucks because it is hard work, so much R&D goes into it, materials are very expensive, I have my own studio in my house devoted to it, it's time consuming and it's not cheap! So I charge as I should for the product. I would consider myself on the higher end of the scale in that industry and I am so overwhelmed with orders for product it is extremely difficult to keep up.
It has nothing to do with suckering money out of rich people, but I prefer to have clients who appreciate and pay for my hard work. If other people would rather pay 1/4 of my prices for someone else's product, go for it. You get what you pay for.

Here is my quote that you are misunderstanding.
When I say, "You get what you pay for" I am saying that I have spent years in R&D, use top quality materials, have high quality packaging and make a superb product. I have my products represented in high end retail locations and are purchased by educated people who appreciate all the hard work and are willing to pay for it.
Someone who is in the same industry and charging 1/4 for similar product is not producing the same thing as I am and the customers will not get the same quality. They have not put the same amount of R&D into it, are not using the same top quality materials or packaging. The customers know it. That is what I meant by "you get what you pay for".

 

[Parago]

Here is my quote that you are misunderstanding.
When I say, "You get what you pay for" I am saying that I have spent years in R&D, use top quality materials, have high quality packaging and make a superb product. I have my products represented in high end retail locations and are purchased by educated people who appreciate all the hard work and are willing to pay for it.
Someone who is in the same industry and charging 1/4 for similar product is not producing the same thing as I am and the customers will not get the same quality. They have not put the same amount of R&D into it, are not using the same top quality materials or packaging. The customers know it. That is what I meant by "you get what you pay for".

Yea well.. I guess I understand what you mean and I know where you're coming from. It's a sore spot for me nonetheless, simply because of my own personal situation, which I am, quite honestly, not happy with. So I guess I'm being a little too bitter - I'm sorry if I came across rude or whatever..

 

[rubbertree]

:hug:: that's okay, you were not rude, I understand your questioning it.
When I first started out in my other business, it was at a hobby level and there was no way I was charging top dollar. But over the years as my knowledge of the art grew, my materials got better, my presentation became top notch, etc, I was then able to start charging more and more. I didn't just jump in at top prices, I worked my way up.

 

[Varuna]

JodieO, you've become a core inspiration for my pursuit of a career in photography!

I learned the real value of photography a number of years ago, when our house flooded and all of our photo albums were destroyed (among other things), leaving all those memories drifting in the fog of my pre-frontal cortex. You're not just paying for a CD full of pictures, or some film and prints.

You're paying for a person's time, indeed, but not just any person. Someone with passion for their work, and a real understanding of how to convey a message or memory through the photos. You may also be paying for the painstaking work of post processing (maybe it's just painstaking for me though )

In my short time as an amateur photog, one awful truth about this industry I've learned, is that many people seem to underestimate the value of what photographers do. We're capturing your fondest memories, which can never be relived, and usually can't be conveyed to others by speech/text nearly as well as a photo. I can tell how magnificent the view of Athens is from a cliffside highway, or how huge the Eiffel Tower is (always looked smaller on TV to me), but my pictures can show you.

Like they say, "A picture is worth a thousand words".

Hopefully people can now start responding to the other elements of the OP's questions. let's hear some more of your journies from buying your camera to living off of your art. I'm personally pretty stuck as to how I can break into the professional field. Currently my best idea is (which I'll do tomorrow) to throw out fax after fax with my resume and cover letter to studios around town as well as some local newspapers asking for assistant, etc. work. How did you guys get into the "pro" side of things?

Oh, and something to help inspire other amateur photogs...The first thing my college automotive prof did when he came into our first class was write a quote of his in HUGE letters on the blackboard, reading "You either are a professional, or you are not." It's all about how you approach what you're doing. I consider myself a Pro-Am Photographer. I'm an amateur because I'm new, and don't make money off of it, but I'm a pro because I carry myself like one. I love what I do, and I'll be damned if I'm going to let someone say otherwise. Ok, I think I've said enough...lol